|
Post by chaimtime on Nov 19, 2023 13:29:27 GMT -5
I don’t see how switching to the bullpen will actually help Sale stay healthy. Less recovery time, higher effort, different routine, very start-stop in nature. A healthy Sale is still one of, if not the best starters on the team, so I don’t think you can do anything other than hope he stays healthy.
|
|
|
Post by julyanmorley on Nov 19, 2023 13:31:37 GMT -5
Pretty sure they're not moving Sale to the bullpen after telling him he's going to be the opening day starter as some kind of offseason motivation thing.
|
|
|
Post by ematz1423 on Nov 19, 2023 15:17:55 GMT -5
Sale is not going to the bullpen nor should he. I have no idea why it keeps being brought up as a thought.
|
|
|
Post by asm19 on Nov 19, 2023 15:39:03 GMT -5
Why not? They have to pay him anyway. Why not try to get a full season out of him instead of putting him on the IR for half a season or more. Sale pitched 102.2 innings this year, which is more than he ever would as a closer. Even missing two months he pitched innings than say, Kenley Jansen. Also - this was literally Sale two months ago:
|
|
|
Post by costpet on Nov 19, 2023 16:09:47 GMT -5
The problem is his health. I don’t think he’s capable of pitching 5- 6 innings every 5 days anymore. So, limiting him to one inning every other day or so might keep him pitching most of the year. He would be lights out in the 9th. I think he might like that role. Look what Eck did in that role after being a starter.
|
|
|
Post by ematz1423 on Nov 19, 2023 16:57:04 GMT -5
The problem is his health. I don’t think he’s capable of pitching 5- 6 innings every 5 days anymore. So, limiting him to one inning every other day or so might keep him pitching most of the year. He would be lights out in the 9th. I think he might like that role. Look what Eck did in that role after being a starter. No I'm sorry but it doesn't make sense. He was arguably their best starter when he pitched and he ended the year healthy. He does not need to go to the pen they need him starting.
|
|
|
Post by Underwater Johnson on Nov 19, 2023 19:54:31 GMT -5
The problem is his health. I don’t think he’s capable of pitching 5- 6 innings every 5 days anymore. So, limiting him to one inning every other day or so might keep him pitching most of the year. He would be lights out in the 9th. I think he might like that role. Look what Eck did in that role after being a starter. Smoltz too, although he even went back to starting. Neither Eck nor Smoltz became closers because they were fragile. They weren't. I still don't think they do it with Sale. Would you sign a closer who you thought was an injury risk? Sale finished the season strong and is in the midst of his first healthy off-season in forever -- so let's try a radical experiment!
|
|
|
Post by costpet on Nov 19, 2023 21:25:37 GMT -5
No one agrees with me, but I can envision Sale walking in from the bullpen in the 9th trying to nail down a one run game. Like in the last inning of the 2018 World Series. A slam dunk. In the bag. A no brainer. Easy peasy.
|
|
|
Post by keninten on Nov 19, 2023 22:02:49 GMT -5
No one agrees with me, but I can envision Sale walking in from the bullpen in the 9th trying to nail down a one run game. Like in the last inning of the 2018 World Series. A slam dunk. In the bag. A no brainer. Easy peasy. I`ve thought the last couple years, when he was coming back after his injuries during the season, it would be best for him and the team to come out of the bullpen. No with all the time in the off season, I would rather see him in the rotation. Right now they have 6 SPs. Someone could piggyback with him if needed. I`d like to see him limited to 5 IP or 80 pitches unless he has a no-hitter going.
|
|
|
Post by costpet on Nov 20, 2023 7:08:42 GMT -5
I wish there was some way we could ask him directly what he thought of that idea.
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Nov 20, 2023 10:04:55 GMT -5
Ben Clemens thinks the Red Sox make the most sense as a trade partner to get Logan O'Hoppe: I don't buy it, but there you go.
|
|
|
Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Nov 20, 2023 10:18:30 GMT -5
Ben Clemens thinks the Red Sox make the most sense as a trade partner to get Logan O'Hoppe: I don't buy it, but there you go. “Catchers often take a long time coming through the system” may be true as a generality, but it reeks of lazy writing to not just look up the fact that this is light years from the truth with Teel. Good player, not a pressing need for this team.
|
|
|
Post by scottysmalls on Nov 20, 2023 10:57:22 GMT -5
O'Hoppe rated astonishingly poorly at pitch framing, like almost twice as bad as Wong who was also awful, and he was also bad at throwing runners out.
His fielding grades as a prospect don't seem to jive with those numbers and he had less than half a season so maybe that works itself out, but I wouldn't want to give up a lot for him unless the team is confident that those defensive ratings in MLB were fluky.
|
|
|
Post by julyanmorley on Nov 20, 2023 12:09:25 GMT -5
I would rate Logan O'Hoppe to the Red Sox as less plausible than the median trade rumor posted anywhere on the internet, including the comments to WEEI articles.
|
|
|
Post by chaimtime on Nov 20, 2023 12:34:28 GMT -5
Bowden says the Sox have been shopping Verdugo for middle infield or pitching help but haven’t been getting any offers they like. Also said it looks like their best bet is using him as part of a larger trade package, which has always felt like the most likely outcome.
|
|
|
Post by Underwater Johnson on Nov 20, 2023 12:44:18 GMT -5
Bowden says the Sox have been shopping Verdugo for middle infield or pitching help but haven’t been getting any offers they like. Also said it looks like their best bet is using him as part of a larger trade package, which has always felt like the most likely outcome. I mean, you lost me at "Bowden says," but I powered thru and it makes sense. Prolly just read it off the teleprompter...
|
|
|
Post by chaimtime on Nov 20, 2023 13:01:25 GMT -5
Bowden says the Sox have been shopping Verdugo for middle infield or pitching help but haven’t been getting any offers they like. Also said it looks like their best bet is using him as part of a larger trade package, which has always felt like the most likely outcome. I mean, you lost me at "Bowden says," but I powered thru and it makes sense. Prolly just read it off the teleprompter... Hahaha I definitely ignore anything he says about like, how to run a team or evaluate players but it seems like he’s still pretty well-connected in the game, so I do think it’s worth listening when he says something is going on.
|
|
|
Post by kwodes on Nov 20, 2023 17:01:23 GMT -5
With Twins looking to shed payroll, how likely do you think it is that Polanco is the sox starting 2B? I wouldn't mind him as their starting 2B for 1 year, but I'd hope he's like plan C not A.
|
|
|
Post by scottysmalls on Nov 20, 2023 17:07:40 GMT -5
With Twins looking to shed payroll, how likely do you think it is that Polanco is the sox starting 2B? I wouldn't mind him as their starting 2B for 1 year, but I'd hope he's like plan C not A. I just predicted they'd get Polanco, but I consider that an optimistic outcome (not a fallback/plan C). Who would you get for 2B then?
|
|
|
Post by kwodes on Nov 20, 2023 17:11:23 GMT -5
With Twins looking to shed payroll, how likely do you think it is that Polanco is the sox starting 2B? I wouldn't mind him as their starting 2B for 1 year, but I'd hope he's like plan C not A. I just predicted they'd get Polanco, but I consider that an optimistic outcome (not a fallback/plan C). Who would you get for 2B then? yea, I guess "plan C" is kind of underselling him, but I'd rather have Kim, adames, and probably India. Kim and Adames for sure, but you're right, I'd definitely see it as a positive outcome if he's the starting 2B.
|
|
|
Post by bellhorndingers21 on Nov 20, 2023 17:43:53 GMT -5
Jorge Polanco OAA at 2B per savant the past three seasons: -2,-9,-5.
|
|
|
Post by kwodes on Nov 20, 2023 18:04:18 GMT -5
Jorge Polanco OAA at 2B per savant the past three seasons: -2,-9,-5. wrc+ last three seasons is 124, 119, 118. He wouldn't help much defensively as you pointed out, but that's why I'd prefer they go after Kim and Adames. Polanco has his warts, but he'd be a productive player and would be pretty cheap to acquire with the twins looking to shed payroll AND make room for Julien to play everyday.
|
|
|
Post by melvinhoggs on Nov 20, 2023 18:40:40 GMT -5
Jorge Polanco OAA at 2B per savant the past three seasons: -2,-9,-5. wrc+ last three seasons is 124, 119, 118. He wouldn't help much defensively as you pointed out, but that's why I'd prefer they go after Kim and Adames. Polanco has his warts, but he'd be a productive player and would be pretty cheap to acquire with the twins looking to shed payroll AND make room for Julien to play everyday. Polanco had a couple good seasons but he's otherwise been pretty mediocre – especially recently – taking into account both offense and defense. Is he meaningfully better than someone like Amed Rosario or Tim Anderson... or even Urias (who I had no problem with the Red Sox trading away)? Maybe a little better, but enough to actually trade assets for?
The price on Polanco would have to be dirt cheap for me to feel positive about it, which I suppose is possible. I agree that for a short-term fill-in, Adames seems like the guy. Kim would be great, but even with the Padres needing to shed money, Kim is making pennies and they still want to compete next year... I don't see that as a likely match.
|
|
|
Post by scottysmalls on Nov 20, 2023 18:58:13 GMT -5
Polanco is maybe slightly better than what I think Urias is likely to be, and I would have been fine with them keeping Urias. 2.6 and 2.8 WAR/150 games the last two seasons. Maybe a health concern haven’t looked at what kept him out of games.
Adames and Kim are in another category of player and will cost a lot more to acquire if their teams are even willing to trade them at all.
|
|
|
Post by melvinhoggs on Nov 20, 2023 19:24:47 GMT -5
Polanco is maybe slightly better than what I think Urias is likely to be, and I would have been fine with them keeping Urias. 2.6 and 2.8 WAR/150 games the last two seasons. Maybe a health concern haven’t looked at what kept him out of games. Adames and Kim are in another category of player and will cost a lot more to acquire if their teams are even willing to trade them at all. I'm not calling you out specifically, but I think people overuse WAR/150; it happened a ton throughout threads debating the merits of Mondesi and Duvall and it routinely overvalues guys that have done a mixed job staying on the field.
My greater point is simply that I don't think Polanco is better enough to pay the prospect cost rather than just sign a bounce-back guy. Preferable to me is getting a good fielder so we have a killer up-the-middle defense and finding the offense elsewhere.
Adames will definitely cost more to acquire and I'll admit I don't want him if the Red Sox don't make one or more serious FA acquisitions – I hate trading for rentals when you're a fringe contender. That being said, I definitely think the Brewers would listen – trading guys as they get close to free agency is very much in line with how they operate.
Edit: meant to say Mondesi, not Kikè.
|
|