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2013 Non-Sox MLB Discussion
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Sept 26, 2013 13:10:22 GMT -5
Can someone remind me, are their draft pick forfeitures tied to going over the lux tax threshold in the new CBA, or is it just more money than before? If a team goes over the luxury tax by more than 15% they can lose their next two first round picks. I never heard of the 15pct rule. Not doubting you. Just never hurt you. The Yankees would be insane to go over the luxury tax by that much this year and sign a guy like McCann. Would lose next 3 1st rounders. Can't over-spend in the summer signing period for int'l free agents any longer. The MLB Draft is pretty much slotted. There aren't going to be any ways for them to acquire talent. And, they will have to overpay free agents. And, pay a 40pct penalty to boot.
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Post by nebraska4sox on Sept 26, 2013 13:19:42 GMT -5
If a team goes over the luxury tax by more than 15% they can lose their next two first round picks. I never heard of the 15pct rule. Not doubting you. Just never hurt you. The Yankees would be insane to go over the luxury tax by that much this year and sign a guy like McCann. Would lose next 3 1st rounders. Can't over-spend in the summer signing period for int'l free agents any longer. The MLB Draft is pretty much slotted. There aren't going to be any ways for them to acquire talent. And, they will have to overpay free agents. And, pay a 40pct penalty to boot. Agreed, but have the yankees cared about their minor leagues for years? They have their top prospects like Sanchez and Betances. I could be totally off base but how deep is their minor league system, I didn't think they had a whole lot of depth.
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Post by jmei on Sept 26, 2013 13:45:57 GMT -5
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Post by nebraska4sox on Sept 26, 2013 14:24:23 GMT -5
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Sept 26, 2013 14:35:01 GMT -5
First time I've ever heard about a player asking for a lot of money. It will be the first time someone has given it to them. To be less sarcastic lets wait until its actually the off season to laugh at all these insane rumors that we'll hear once the off season starts. You know like there always are. I agree, but it was very shocking to see this as I am eating my breakfast at work this morning. Its almost like he never fired Scott BorasRight, because all other sports agents are Buddhist monks who reject material wealth.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Sept 26, 2013 14:43:09 GMT -5
So Bud Selig is set to retire....
May a guy that actually gets amateur acquisition come in and remove all these restrictions. ABOLISH THE DRAFT!!!!
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Post by okin15 on Sept 26, 2013 15:00:49 GMT -5
So Bud Selig is set to retire.... May a guy that actually gets amateur acquisition come in and remove all these restrictions. ABOLISH THE DRAFT!!!! You think players should get paid on their potential ceiling? That sounds like a poor incentive program for amateurs.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Sept 26, 2013 15:12:50 GMT -5
No I believe teams should be able to spend what ever they want on amateur talent. Specially in a sport which has a welfare system and other teams shouldn't be able to cry poor since other teams are are giving them money to spend precisely on things like amateur talent. Unless that money is suppose to go to the owners' pockets then I get the restrictions.
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Post by okin15 on Sept 26, 2013 15:18:43 GMT -5
I don't disagree with the issue that amateur talent should be allocated to those who value it most, I do think that free-spending on it is a disaster. You'll end up with teams spending on potential rather than results, and with players trying to prove they can bench press, run 40's, take good BP, post up chairs, etc.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Sept 26, 2013 15:23:02 GMT -5
The abolish the draft thing was a joke, obviously there needs to be some parameters. I just don't think MLB can stop owners from being stupid, they just will on their own.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Sept 26, 2013 15:42:52 GMT -5
I don't disagree with the issue that amateur talent should be allocated to those who value it most, I do think that free-spending on it is a disaster. You'll end up with teams spending on potential rather than results, and with players trying to prove they can bench press, run 40's, take good BP, post up chairs, etc. Huh? Teams know what they're doing when it comes to talent acquisition (to varying degrees), they're not going to forget all that just because they can spend more money.
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Post by nebraska4sox on Sept 26, 2013 16:18:05 GMT -5
I don't disagree with the issue that amateur talent should be allocated to those who value it most, I do think that free-spending on it is a disaster. You'll end up with teams spending on potential rather than results, and with players trying to prove they can bench press, run 40's, take good BP, post up chairs, etc. Teams already kind of do this. With the whole projectable left handers and the projected to be a middle of the order power bat. They go on results and charting and numerous other things Im sure, but its still all based on future projections, at least a little bit.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,842
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Post by wcp3 on Sept 26, 2013 19:10:03 GMT -5
Selig should retire about 15 years ago. In a world of awful commissioners, he has a solid case for being the worst one ever (although I think Bettman takes that one home).
He's just an awful human being and I can't wait to never have to see his stupid mug again.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Sept 26, 2013 20:35:06 GMT -5
One can't just throw out Selig being an awful human being like that. It's not called for. Yes.. He has taken the Commish seat to a new level of disgust. The owners placed him in that job and he works for them, was once one of them as well and we should remember that.
Is he spineless while following his task as the commissioner? Yes, though that is why the owners put him into that job. There has not been one with a backbone since Bowie Kuhn and most likely will not be one presented by the owners who will get enough votes with the stern resolve to sit in that chair ever again.. It's not what they want in this day and age. Owners want their sway 100% and their voices heard, not what any fully independent thinker has to say.
Expect a lackey this next time around, just like the guy Selig looks like.. Harry Reid.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Sept 26, 2013 20:49:34 GMT -5
Can someone remind me, are their draft pick forfeitures tied to going over the lux tax threshold in the new CBA, or is it just more money than before? General rule: going over draft allocation can cost you draft picks, going over the roster salary cap costs you money Coming to you from the great northwest
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Post by bluechip on Sept 26, 2013 20:53:13 GMT -5
Selig introduced the wild card and increased parity. That is a success.
Judge Kenesaw Mountain Landis is in a class of his own when it comes to terrible commissioners. Easily the most destructive commissioner ever.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Sept 26, 2013 21:19:39 GMT -5
... There has not been one with a backbone since Bowie Kuhn and most likely will not be one presented by the owners who will get enough votes with the stern resolve to sit in that chair ever again.. Expect a lackey this next time around, just like the guy Selig looks like.. Harry Reid. By the same token, I can't let you go around talking about Bow(t)ie Kuhn that way. One of the great joys of my earlier baseball life was watching Marvin Miller free players from the serfdom Kuhn sought to keep in place at the behest of those owners, beating him blue at every turn. As for Reid, an ex gold glove boxer who grew up living the sort of hardscrabble existence most of us will never know, you, just as many others in his past, vastly underestimate him. A lot of those folks are roadkill now. Might want to take the political chatter somewhere else, eh?
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Post by johnsilver52 on Sept 26, 2013 22:30:02 GMT -5
Hi Norm,
The close look a like always amazed me. That was mostly why threw it in there. Can't resist when mention Selig's name.. Never again here.
Yes. Absolutely correct on Reid's upbringing and all and his *early* career. But once again, this is about Selig.
Kuhn and Miller had multiple minor and major battles early on.. The early ones were just over getting the simplest of things for the players that many don't even know about, like simple meal money increases that hadn't been raised for years, or benches repaired/replaced in bullpens, where some were missing even. Conditions were appalling at some stadiums for players and Miller was tireless for player rights.
Then the Curt Flood case most know about, civil rights he was involved in and some friction involved.. Kuhn took heat. Free agency and the Messersmith case.
Miller took heat from both sides, then gave it back to the owners when he blocked owners as well.. The Calvin Griffiths and Charlie O's from selling off assets (players) for quick cash.
You know all of that, as do some others. Just a quick rehash of what Kuhn did as a commissioner for those who were not aware. Much more than inter league play, that any commissioner could have added at any time for a quick profit, or a few extra teams that has been done multiple times before to line the pockets of owners.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,842
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Post by wcp3 on Sept 26, 2013 22:56:44 GMT -5
One can't just throw out Selig being an awful human being like that. It's not called for. Yes.. He has taken the Commish seat to a new level of disgust. The owners placed him in that job and he works for them, was once one of them as well and we should remember that. Is he spineless while following his task as the commissioner? Yes, though that is why the owners put him into that job. There has not been one with a backbone since Bowie Kuhn and most likely will not be one presented by the owners who will get enough votes with the stern resolve to sit in that chair ever again.. It's not what they want in this day and age. Owners want their sway 100% and their voices heard, not what any fully independent thinker has to say. Expect a lackey this next time around, just like the guy Selig looks like.. Harry Reid. Nah, he's also a bad person. And he was so, so, sooo bad as a commissioner. All in all, he gets an F-.
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Post by nebraska4sox on Sept 27, 2013 7:52:01 GMT -5
Who do we think will be the next commish? I have heard Cal Ripken's name thrown around as well as Joe Torre. Joe Torre does not want to do it, because he is to old.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Sept 27, 2013 8:16:29 GMT -5
Who do we think will be the next commish? I have heard Cal Ripken's name thrown around as well as Joe Torre. Joe Torre does not want to do it, because he is to old. Someone who knows what email is.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 9,007
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 27, 2013 14:24:49 GMT -5
Reds and Pirates are 8-8 so far, so whoever wins the weekend series will also get the home field for the WC game on Tuesday. If that's the Reds, the teams will end up playing four games in five days in the same city, which is something you don't see very often, if ever.
In the AL, the Rays have the tiebreaker over the Indians, the Indians over the Rangers, and the Rangers over the Rays. I've worked out all the crazy three-way tie scenarios but I'll wait to see if that possibility is eliminated tonight or tomorrow.
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Post by Steve Henley on Sept 27, 2013 14:31:01 GMT -5
LinkMLB.tv is showing every game for free this weekend. Blackout rules still apply, though.
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Post by raftsox on Sept 27, 2013 14:41:29 GMT -5
Reds and Pirates are 8-8 so far, so whoever wins the weekend series will also get the home field for the WC game on Tuesday. If that's the Reds, the teams will end up playing four games in five days in the same city, which is something you don't see very often, if ever. In the AL, the Rays have the tiebreaker over the Indians, the Indians over the Rangers, and the Rangers over the Rays. I've worked out all the crazy three-way tie scenarios but I'll wait to see if that possibility is eliminated tonight or tomorrow. August 16, 2006 was the start of a 5 game series between the Red Sox and Yankees. My daughter was born just before game 1, which Boston won; they then lost the next 4. If only I was a polygamist and had really good timing we could have swept that series.
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Post by okin15 on Sept 27, 2013 15:36:07 GMT -5
I don't disagree with the issue that amateur talent should be allocated to those who value it most, I do think that free-spending on it is a disaster. You'll end up with teams spending on potential rather than results. Huh? Teams know what they're doing when it comes to talent acquisition (to varying degrees), they're not going to forget all that just because they can spend more money. Teams used to trip over each other to sign athletic 16-yo's for lots of dollars, mostly because they were terrified others would find a diamond in the rough first. A more equitable system strikes a balance between incentivizing potential while controlling costs at that level lest the promise of talent become more valuable than the talent itself. The NFL has taken it to an extreme, forcing younger players into indentured servitude, but certainly we can't allow teams to bid hug sums for guys who haven't pitched yet and might bust before they reach AA. I'd be a big fan of a system where there were player development academies and graduating players enter teams' systems (advanced minors only) in an auction process of some sort.
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