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2013 Non-Sox MLB Discussion
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 24, 2013 13:37:52 GMT -5
gweg I just feel the team should not be on the hook for a player's contract, if they are found to be cheating in order to achieve results. If I hire any employee based on their past work, research, or achievements. Then find out that the criteria we used to evaluate them, for example: a brilliant graduate school paper on a new financial theory they claimed to write was actually the work of another students. I have every right to not only fire them in my mind, but if I want I should be able to seek legal retribution if I see fit. They are hardly victims. There were quite a few reports that it was common knowledge in the clubhouse that Arod was juicing when he signed the contract. They didn't care.
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Post by bsout2 on Jul 24, 2013 13:40:28 GMT -5
gweg I just feel the team should not be on the hook for a player's contract, if they are found to be cheating in order to achieve results. If I hire any employee based on their past work, research, or achievements. Then find out that the criteria we used to evaluate them, for example: a brilliant graduate school paper on a new financial theory they claimed to write was actually the work of another students. I have every right to not only fire them in my mind, but if I want I should be able to seek legal retribution if I see fit. They are hardly victims. There were quite a few reports that it was common knowledge in the clubhouse that Arod was juicing when he signed the contract. They didn't care. You are probably right, I just hate Arod more then I hate the actual Yankees.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 24, 2013 13:47:02 GMT -5
They are hardly victims. There were quite a few reports that it was common knowledge in the clubhouse that Arod was juicing when he signed the contract. They didn't care. You are probably right, I just hate Arod more then I hate the actual Yankees. I hate both. It would be justice if Arod didn't get the money but the Yankees still had to pay it to charity and have it count against the luxury tax threshold. Arod was cheating and the Yankees at best were turning a blind eye and at worst were complicit. The Yankees shouldn't be rewarded with another $27 million to spend for the next 5 years after agreeing to the worst contract in sports history.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jul 24, 2013 15:00:49 GMT -5
Uhm, yeah, what are the White Sox thinking? As I said over in the trade rumors discussion, I'm not sure i really believe that. Yeah I highly doubt Stl would make that offer in the 1st place.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jul 24, 2013 15:01:42 GMT -5
So basically, no one even cares about steroid use unless it happens to get pinned on a player/team they already dislike.
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Post by Gwell55 on Jul 24, 2013 15:26:02 GMT -5
So basically, no one even cares about steroid use unless it happens to get pinned on a player/team they already dislike. LOL or the player who ranked above your favorite player to win a notable award. Personally, if Kemp was to get that past MVP then Gator should of got Canseco's in 88 just like he claimed when Jose admitted steroids to start this whole mess. After all the Sox earned that one, way back when it counted!!! LOL
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Post by elguapo on Jul 24, 2013 15:31:15 GMT -5
So basically, no one even cares about steroid use unless it happens to get pinned on a player/team they already dislike. Considering that we will never know who really did and did not use PEDs and when and how much and what kinds, that we will never know who's doing a Lance Armstrong and beating testing, and the very hazy notion of what use of what PED use was actually illegal (different laws in different jurisdictions) or should constitute cheating or is a health hazard, it makes as much sense as anything to react to each situation based on existing likes & dislikes. That's also how the media treats it, of course.
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Post by raftsox on Jul 24, 2013 15:34:52 GMT -5
So basically, no one even cares about steroid use unless it happens to get pinned on a player/team they already dislike. I haven't care from the beginning. Let's go SNL with this thing.
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Post by jmei on Jul 24, 2013 15:43:13 GMT -5
gweg I just feel the team should not be on the hook for a player's contract, if they are found to be cheating in order to achieve results. If I hire any employee based on their past work, research, or achievements. Then find out that the criteria we used to evaluate them, for example: a brilliant graduate school paper on a new financial theory they claimed to write was actually the work of another students. I have every right to not only fire them in my mind, but if I want I should be able to seek legal retribution if I see fit. They are hardly victims. There were quite a few reports that it was common knowledge in the clubhouse that Arod was juicing when he signed the contract. They didn't care. You may personally feel that way, but the the CBA has never put the onus or the burden on the teams to ensure their players were clean and steroid-free. Back in 2007, the only reports connecting Rodriguez to steroid use were allegations from Jose Canseco, who was just about the least sympathetic and credible character out there at the time.
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Post by Gwell55 on Jul 24, 2013 15:47:18 GMT -5
They are hardly victims. There were quite a few reports that it was common knowledge in the clubhouse that Arod was juicing when he signed the contract. They didn't care. You may personally feel that way, but the the CBA has never put the onus or the burden on the teams to ensure their players were clean and steroid-free. Back in 2007, the only reports connecting Rodriguez to steroid use were allegations from Jose Canseco, who was just about the least sympathetic and credible character out there at the time. But ironically the one telling the truth or closest to it! LOL
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jul 24, 2013 17:05:20 GMT -5
So basically, no one even cares about steroid use unless it happens to get pinned on a player/team they already dislike. I haven't care from the beginning. Let's go SNL with this thing. I could go on an infinitely long rant about this, but what it comes down to is that PED use is an outrage... whenever that outrage suites someone's purposes. If you're the media and you're pushing a narrative about how Bonds or A-Rod are jerks, well then steroid use makes them history's greatest monsters. If it's Andy Pettitte and he's a hero, well, he probably just did it the one time to get healthy and let's all just forget about that. If you're Bud Selig in '98 and the home run chase is bringing baseball back to life, steroids are fine. If it's '02 and you need a club to beat the player's union with, then suddenly steroids are an issue. If you're a Red Sox fan, there's nothing suspicious about Ortiz being one of the five best hitters in baseball at 37, or Nava suddenly hitting for power at 30, but the Yankees are clearly juiced. I'm not saying one way or the other on these issues, but the point is, no one actually cares about steroid use. It's just a convenient way that people can pursue their own agenda or re-enforce their biases under the pretense of some kind of moral righteousness.
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Post by Gwell55 on Jul 24, 2013 17:13:51 GMT -5
I haven't care from the beginning. Let's go SNL with this thing. I could go on an infinitely long rant about this, but what it comes down to is that PED use is an outrage... whenever that outrage suites someone's purposes. If you're the media and you're pushing a narrative about how Bonds or A-Rod are jerks, well then steroid use makes them history's greatest monsters. If it's Andy Pettitte and he's a hero, well, he probably just did it the one time to get healthy and let's all just forget about that. If you're Bud Selig in '98 and the home run chase is bringing baseball back to life, steroids are fine. If it's '02 and you need a club to beat the player's union with, then suddenly steroids are an issue. If you're a Red Sox fan, there's nothing suspicious about Ortiz being one of the five best hitters in baseball at 37, or Nava suddenly hitting for power at 30, but the Yankees are clearly juiced. I'm not saying one way or the other on these issues, but the point is, no one actually cares about steroid use. It's just a convenient way that people can pursue their own agenda or re-enforce their biases under the pretense of some kind of moral righteousness. Careful what your saying, I got kicked off another nameless Sox site a couple years ago for saying the same thing as your "short" narrative above. LOL
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 24, 2013 17:18:46 GMT -5
I care a lot about steroid use. I'm a big baseball history guy. The numbers which were sacred to me have been tarnished and made irrelevant forever.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 24, 2013 17:42:42 GMT -5
Appropos of nothing, but proof that sometimes the world makes sense: Joe Mauer and his wife had their first offspring today. Of course, they had twins.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 24, 2013 18:12:59 GMT -5
NYDN Sports I-Team ?@nydnsportsiteam34m Dr. Michael Gross, who A-Rod sought for 2nd opinion on quad injury, was reprimanded by NJ Attorney General in Feb. 2013. NYDN Sports I-Team ?@nydnsportsiteam32m Gross, who started Active Center for Health & Wellness, cited for "failing to adequately ensure proper patient treatment..." (con't) NYDN Sports I-Team ?@nydnsportsiteam " involving the prescribing of hormone s including steroids, at Active Health and Wellness Center LLC," according to order. NYDN Sports I-Team ?@nydnsportsiteam20m According to source, "(Gross) has caused MLB to now expand its investigation (of A-Rod) in regard to his relationship with this doctor. he cant be this stupid can he? twitter.com/NYDNSportsITeam
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Post by ray88h66 on Jul 24, 2013 18:36:26 GMT -5
Appropos of nothing, but proof that sometimes the world makes sense: Joe Mauer and his wife had their first offspring today. Of course, they had twins. No truth to the rumor they named the girls Minnie and Paula.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jul 24, 2013 20:34:57 GMT -5
The numbers which were sacred to me have been tarnished and made irrelevant forever. By segregation? Greenies? The lowering of the mound? Collusion? The various changes in ballparks over the years? Modern bats? Guys not having to sell suits in the offseason? The increased length of the schedule? Expansion teams? Changes in the strike zone? I'm sorry to break it to you, but the records have never been sacred.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 24, 2013 21:00:13 GMT -5
“@cjzero: Tim Hudson. You might not want to see it RT @bubbaprog ANIMATED: ANKLES DO NOT BEND THAT WAY t.co/pjc5yOdKob”
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Post by ray88h66 on Jul 24, 2013 21:18:56 GMT -5
I haven't care from the beginning. Let's go SNL with this thing. I could go on an infinitely long rant about this, but what it comes down to is that PED use is an outrage... whenever that outrage suites someone's purposes. If you're the media and you're pushing a narrative about how Bonds or A-Rod are jerks, well then steroid use makes them history's greatest monsters. If it's Andy Pettitte and he's a hero, well, he probably just did it the one time to get healthy and let's all just forget about that. If you're Bud Selig in '98 and the home run chase is bringing baseball back to life, steroids are fine. If it's '02 and you need a club to beat the player's union with, then suddenly steroids are an issue. If you're a Red Sox fan, there's nothing suspicious about Ortiz being one of the five best hitters in baseball at 37, or Nava suddenly hitting for power at 30, but the Yankees are clearly juiced. I'm not saying one way or the other on these issues, but the point is, no one actually cares about steroid use. It's just a convenient way that people can pursue their own agenda or re-enforce their biases under the pretense of some kind of moral righteousness. We had this debate years ago about Bonds but I'll disagree with you again. I do suspect Papi because of his positive test.I hope he's clean now. Nava has improved every year so I think he's a bad example, but if he tests positive or is found to be linked to PED dealers I'll change my view of him. I also think your Andy P point is off. I liked Mc Guire and Sosa. But if they cheated I don't want them to be hero's. Not an agenda, just an opinion. I do think you're right about Selig in 98. The game was in trouble and he looked the other way. I think things are different now. Baseball wants the game to be clean, but I also think the players want it to be clean. I've seen a lot of players talking about this on TV and social media. They were mostly quiet in the past.
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Post by bluechip on Jul 24, 2013 21:39:31 GMT -5
Wait till the first genetically engineered athletes start destroying records. There are already concerns about gene doping. I really do hate that athletes use PEDs, but the impact on sports of science is going to increase, not decrease.
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Post by elguapo on Jul 24, 2013 22:28:27 GMT -5
I do suspect Papi because of his positive test.I hope he's clean now. Ortiz more or less admitted to using things (specifically a protein shake, but let's creatively assume there were others) earlier in his career in the Dominican Republic without worrying about what they contained. Obviously not an approach he uses now, not least for health reasons! As for the present day, he's only 37 and he's been shedding bulk, not gaining it. There's really no reason to suspect him as much as some fringy bench player who at least has a genuine economic motive for cheating.
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Post by ray88h66 on Jul 24, 2013 22:39:15 GMT -5
I do suspect Papi because of his positive test.I hope he's clean now. Ortiz more or less admitted to using things (specifically a protein shake, but let's creatively assume there were others) earlier in his career in the Dominican Republic without worrying about what they contained. Obviously not an approach he uses now, not least for health reasons! As for the present day, he's only 37 and he's been shedding bulk, not gaining it. There's really no reason to suspect him as much as some fringy bench player who at least has a genuine economic motive for cheating. Fair enough. I was mostly addressing Fenway's charge that those of us bothered by steroids only care about the PED users from teams and players we don't like. I love Papi.
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Post by ray88h66 on Jul 24, 2013 23:02:01 GMT -5
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jul 24, 2013 23:40:43 GMT -5
He's your guy now, he's not Dominican. We have enough.
I all seriousness this guy is cooked.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 25, 2013 21:33:46 GMT -5
RT @jnorris427: One name I've heard could be involved in this deal is RHP Corey Black. #yankees
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