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Social Justice Reform in Sports
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 24, 2020 16:14:31 GMT -5
What do we think about it? Is it hurting viewership in sports? Has it become political? Is that a good thing with one party supporting it and one that seems against it? Doesn't pro athlete telling you to vote make it political?
Considering what's going on right now, it seems like something we should discuss.
I have zero issues with players using their star power to go after things they believe in. I have to say I'm not a big fan of how they are currently doing it though. I'm not a fan of slogans on NBA jerseys or that week one of the NFL was all about who stood, who didn't and why teams stayed in the locker room. In this day and age athletes can simply tweet or post a facebook message and reach the whole world. We've seen just that with the Taylor case, there point is crystal clear.
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 24, 2020 18:31:19 GMT -5
It doesn’t bother me one way or another to be honest. I don’t care who stands or kneels. I don’t care what an athlete or announcer has to say on it just as I don’t care what any “celebrity” has to say about anything. I’ve always felt this way about celebs so it just kind goes the same way with athletes. I don’t care that they talk about it; I just don’t put much stock into their opinions. The announcers bother me a bit because I want to hear about the game I’m watching. The players talking in a press conference doesn’t affect me one iota.
The slogans on the back of the jersey are annoying because it’s harder to know who’s who, so from a strict game watching experience it detracts. As far as viewership numbers go, it doesn’t affect my viewership.
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Post by unitspin on Sept 24, 2020 19:47:23 GMT -5
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I watch sports as entertainment not to get lectured. I no longer watch NFL or NBA and you can throw the news in there as well. I live in Massachusetts where everyone all the time is pushing their agendas onto you, I just want to have a convo about anything that no politics are involved in. It used to be rude to bring it up now it emboldens ppl.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 25, 2020 10:42:48 GMT -5
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Post by beasleyrockah on Sept 25, 2020 13:34:42 GMT -5
"He shot at a cop" is a reductionist argument that ignores context. Her boyfriend wasn't a criminal, wasn't involved in the warrant, and was a legal gun owner. He lived in a red, stand your ground state. The police claim they announced their presence, but the boyfriend claims they didn't despite loudly yelling at the intruders to identify themselves. The police had a no knock warrant approved so they had no incentive to properly announce themselves. I don't completely rule out that the police announced themselves, but I also wouldn't be surprised if they are lying about it after the fact. The only reason police issue warrants at 1am is to catch them off guard while sleeping, the very timing of the warrant increases the likelihood of this scenario happening, and loudly announcing their presence defeats their objective. Ultimately, it's very hard to come up with a reasonable motive for why he would've deliberately fired exactly one shot if he really knew it was the police. Now, the legal argument is tougher obviously, because the laws make it very difficult to charge (and especially convict) police for any wrongdoing. If police served the warrant in a more professional and transparent manner, I highly doubt the officer would've been shot and Breonna Taylor wouldn't have been killed. The city agreed to pay $12m for the police's role, and they couldn't bring the boyfriend to trial despite shooting a cop. These aren't the actions a city would take if this was a normal incident. The boyfriend claims they tried to leverage his arrest to implicate Taylor in the drug scheme, which would not be a unique tactic. So, by law, maybe they shouldn't be held responsible for their death in a court room, because the law is written to uniquely protect police. The problem is, in reality, their actions directly led to her killing, and this is yet another example of a dangerous police procedure that unnecessarily puts lives at risk. The legal protections police have may be necessary, but with these protections police should be held to the highest standard and they've fallen so short here. Police generally fight against bans of no knock warrants or mandatory body cameras, and it takes tragedy for a state like Kentucky to issue these reforms. The officer who was shot got video access to another body camera from a responding officer, and his lawyer is using it to garner public sympathy. We know at least one officer who served the warrant was wearing a body camera based on the police's own photos, and we know the chief lied about this fact. We have no video from the warrant/shooting. The chief was later fired in June, after two cops involved in a separate shooting also didn't have their body cameras on as required (seems, dare I say, a systemic issue with that department). It's almost like the police use these tools to their own advantage, but systemically keep them off when they know high risk police activity is about to go down to protect themselves in case they violate protocol. In a he said, she said dispute they will always win. The law may have been applied properly, but that doesn't mean the laws are just either. Legally, even if it was proven the cops came in with no announcement and killed both occupants only to find no drugs, money, or other evidence, they could've still not been charged, and that's the problem. The police did a poor job in so many aspects: the supporting evidence for the no knock warrant seems questionable at best, the surveillance before serving the warrant was lacking, they most likely didn't adequately identify themselves, they didn't use body cameras to document the incident, and one cop fired indiscriminately after the initial shot. Then, they took months to release the nearly blank police report that listed "no forced entry", no bias, and no injuries for Taylor despite the fact Taylor was already dead. It's one thing to argue the law was properly applied, but to act like the cops incompetence wasn't staggering in this case makes me uncomfortable. This form of policing is a huge risk to society with minimal benefits. I don't want to get rid of police, but I want them to be better than these cops.
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 25, 2020 13:53:46 GMT -5
"He shot at a cop" is a reductionist argument that ignores context. Her boyfriend wasn't a criminal, wasn't involved in the warrant, and was a legal gun owner. He lived in a red, stand your ground state. The police claim they announced their presence, but the boyfriend claims they didn't despite loudly yelling at the intruders to identify themselves. The police had a no knock warrant approved so they had no incentive to properly announce themselves. I don't completely rule out that the police announced themselves, but I also wouldn't be surprised if they are lying about it after the fact. The only reason police issue warrants at 1am is to catch them off guard while sleeping, the very timing of the warrant increases the likelihood of this scenario happening, and loudly announcing their presence defeats their objective. Ultimately, it's very hard to come up with a reasonable motive for why he would've deliberately fired exactly one shot if he really knew it was the police. Now, the legal argument is tougher obviously, because the laws make it very difficult to charge (and especially convict) police for any wrongdoing. If police served the warrant in a more professional and transparent manner, I highly doubt the officer would've been shot and Breonna Taylor wouldn't have been killed. The city agreed to pay $12m for the police's role, and they couldn't bring the boyfriend to trial despite shooting a cop. These aren't the actions a city would take if this was a normal incident. The boyfriend claims they tried to leverage his arrest to implicate Taylor in the drug scheme, which would not be a unique tactic. So, by law, maybe they shouldn't be held responsible for their death in a court room, because the law is written to uniquely protect police. The problem is, in reality, their actions directly led to her killing, and this is yet another example of a dangerous police procedure that unnecessarily puts lives at risk. The legal protections police have may be necessary, but with these protections police should be held to the highest standard and they've fallen so short here. Police generally fight against bans of no knock warrants or mandatory body cameras, and it takes tragedy for a state like Kentucky to issue these reforms. The officer who was shot got video access to another body camera from a responding officer, and his lawyer is using it to garner public sympathy. We know at least one officer who served the warrant was wearing a body camera based on the police's own photos, and we know the chief lied about this fact. We have no video from the warrant/shooting. The chief was later fired in June, after two cops involved in a separate shooting also didn't have their body cameras on as required (seems, dare I say, a systemic issue with that department). It's almost like the police use these tools to their own advantage, but systemically keep them off when they know high risk police activity is about to go down to protect themselves in case they violate protocol. In a he said, she said dispute they will always win. The law may have been applied properly, but that doesn't mean the laws are just either. Legally, even if it was proven the cops came in with no announcement and killed both occupants only to find no drugs, money, or other evidence, they could've still not been charged, and that's the problem. The police did a poor job in so many aspects: the supporting evidence for the no knock warrant seems questionable at best, the surveillance before serving the warrant was lacking, they most likely didn't adequately identify themselves, they didn't use body cameras to document the incident, one cope fired indiscriminately after the initial shot, they wrote a nearly blank police report with "no listed injuries" despite the fact Taylor lay dead, and they initially either lied about or misrepresented key facts after the incident. If you cut out the Majority of you’re first paragraph, I might completely agree with this post. You talk about a no knock warrant giving them no reason to announce themselves but ignore the fact that they banged loudly on the door and for long enough for Taylor and the boyfriend to ask on multiple occasions who it was. The thing about a no knock warrant is it gives no motivation to knock. But they did knock so what’s the point in not identifying yourself? Maybe they did and the people inside didn’t hear over their own voices and the banging on the door? Who the hell knows. This is the problem - we shouldn’t speculate on this stuff. Which is why I agree with the rest of your post. Cops need to be held to a higher standard and they need to be given better procedures and training. All cops should be wearing body cameras at all times to protect them and to protect us. Under cover situations are different but no knock warrants aren’t the same as that.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 25, 2020 15:07:36 GMT -5
I've seen a panel of five prominent black lawyers, prosecutors etc who looked at the case and they all agreed the evidence for the warrant was massive. Zero issues with that.
Context Taylor's ex BF was a big time drug dealer who's now in jail. They have multiple recordings of him saying go see Taylor she has my money to get me out of here. It's why they launched an investigation into her and got a warrant.
Makes sense why her new BF would open up fire through the door without knowing who it was no? He thought it was her ex BFs buddies coming for the money.
I don't think stand your ground laws apply to firing through a closed door when you don't know who's on the other side. They bust through the door sure, yet at that point it would be clear they are Police.
One neighbor has said they heard Police announce themselves and it makes perfect sense if they were banging on the door. Who knows if they heard them inside. I believe the BFs story, I don't think he knew it was Police. He was just scared it was Taylor's EXs guys. Yet that's part of the problem for me, because that's not normal. Part of this is life choices she made. Choices the BF made to fire a weapon having zero clue who he was shooting at, that's the biggest no no of gun ownership. It's why one officer was fired and charged because he just randomly fired his weapon with Bullets entering other apartments.
The Police certainly handled this poorly and yes we need Police reform. I'd argue if they just did the no knock warrant no one gets shot or killed because they would have been inside before the BF even knew what was happening. That's the point of no knock warrants to avoid this type of event. I 100% agree with RJP every cop should have a body camera and they need to always by on, along with more and better training. The fact they had watched her on and off for a long time yet thought she was alone.
Yet I truly believe this happened because of life choices Taylor made. It's a truly tragic event she died, yet there is much more to this story than what most news stations are truly reporting. She died because she was in such fear that she worked her BF up to the point that he just fired without knowing who it was. He's lucky to not be charged because of current events and the Police messing up.
If she didn't have his money why else was she is so much fear that her EXs guys would come after her?
I'm all for reform, because our Police do kill too many people of all colors. Yet we need to look at facts also. Which I don't think you are if you think the cops need to be charged with murder. That's going to greatly influence ratings of sports.
It's getting to the point that no matter what a person does, it's still just cops killing black people. That's wrong. The crazy guy jumping around with a knife who charged at a police officer like a week ago. They destroyed the city, with the family saying why did you have to kill him. This has to be a two way street for real change, it's not just 100% on one side.
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 25, 2020 15:38:33 GMT -5
He didn’t fire thru a closed door - he fired after they busted down the door. Criminals do kick down doors too.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Sept 25, 2020 17:16:46 GMT -5
If you cut out the Majority of you’re first paragraph, I might completely agree with this post. You talk about a no knock warrant giving them no reason to announce themselves but ignore the fact that they banged loudly on the door and for long enough for Taylor and the boyfriend to ask on multiple occasions who it was. The thing about a no knock warrant is it gives no motivation to knock. But they did knock so what’s the point in not identifying yourself? Maybe they did and the people inside didn’t hear over their own voices and the banging on the door? Who the hell knows. This is the problem - we shouldn’t speculate on this stuff. Which is why I agree with the rest of your post. Cops need to be held to a higher standard and they need to be given better procedures and training. All cops should be wearing body cameras at all times to protect them and to protect us. Under cover situations are different but no knock warrants aren’t the same as that. The bolded part is speculation on your part though. You describe knocking as a fact, as if police definitely knocked on the door hoping the occupants would answer. You also suggest the knocking could've been so loud and consistent that the occupants couldn't hear three policeman shouting "police, search warrant" over and over, and the same police couldn't hear two occupants yelling for the "intruders" to identify themselves. I don't know about you, but unless you have a sound proof door that's pretty hard to do by just pounding a door repeatedly with your hands. It sounds more likely in this scenario that the "knocking" was not a knock at that point, but the noise of the battering ram or other tool hitting the door repeatedly until it gained entry. So why knock but not identify yourself? Well, what if they only knocked for 10 seconds or not at all and just went straight to the battering ram? How can we say this "fact" of continued knocking wasn't just the sound of them ramming the door to gain entry? At the risk of repeating myself, the police claimed there was no forced entry in their report, which was obviously not true. The police obtained a no knock warrant. After the incident, the police claimed even though they had a no knock warrant they were told to knock because Taylor wasn't seen as a risk for confrontation. It doesn't speak well of their warrant procedures if internally they don't feel the evidence should lead to a no knock warrant but were able to obtain one anyway, right? They lied about having no body cameras, and we found out later they just supposedly didn't turn it on. Yes, some parts of this case require speculation and reasonable minds can differ, but if anyone can't understand why some people don't trust this particular police department I don't know what to tell you. They haven't been completely truthful, to say the least, and the lack of public trust is undoubtedly their fault. There are many things we don't know about that night, but based on all the facts we do know I believe Kenneth Walker's account more than the police, while thinking the most likely account is somewhere in the middle but still closer to Walker's account. I think I need to make this point too: if police didn't announce themselves, or did but only briefly, it doesn't mean they had sinister intent to deceive. I don't believe the cops intentionally tried to conceal their identity, I think they probably just didn't announce themselves as well as their training told them to (repeatedly, loudly, even after gaining entrance and moving throughout the home). These officers made many mistakes that night, and I'm sure their adrenaline was high before breaking down the door, so once it became time to break down the door (perhaps prematurely) their goals of identifying themselves temporarily switched to knock down the door mode. It would not shock me if these same officers initially did identify themselves before quick knocking and an even quicker transition to the battering ram, but they should've been repeatedly shouting it even after gaining entrance and continued as they move throughout the home. Cops can make mistakes while having good intentions. What's amazing to me though is this police department and local government is literally in the process of changing their procedures and some of their officers to prevent this situation in the future, but nearly half of America wants to act like this stuff just happens and can't be fixed (I'm not putting you in that bucket, rjp313jr).
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 25, 2020 18:43:48 GMT -5
If you cut out the Majority of you’re first paragraph, I might completely agree with this post. You talk about a no knock warrant giving them no reason to announce themselves but ignore the fact that they banged loudly on the door and for long enough for Taylor and the boyfriend to ask on multiple occasions who it was. The thing about a no knock warrant is it gives no motivation to knock. But they did knock so what’s the point in not identifying yourself? Maybe they did and the people inside didn’t hear over their own voices and the banging on the door? Who the hell knows. This is the problem - we shouldn’t speculate on this stuff. Which is why I agree with the rest of your post. Cops need to be held to a higher standard and they need to be given better procedures and training. All cops should be wearing body cameras at all times to protect them and to protect us. Under cover situations are different but no knock warrants aren’t the same as that. The bolded part is speculation on your part though. You describe knocking as a fact, as if police definitely knocked on the door hoping the occupants would answer. You also suggest the knocking could've been so loud and consistent that the occupants couldn't hear three policeman shouting "police, search warrant" over and over, and the same police couldn't hear two occupants yelling for the "intruders" to identify themselves. I don't know about you, but unless you have a sound proof door that's pretty hard to do by just pounding a door repeatedly with your hands. It sounds more likely in this scenario that the "knocking" was not a knock at that point, but the noise of the battering ram or other tool hitting the door repeatedly until it gained entry. So why knock but not identify yourself? Well, what if they only knocked for 10 seconds or not at all and just went straight to the battering ram? How can we say this "fact" of continued knocking wasn't just the sound of them ramming the door to gain entry? . I said it was a fact they knocked on the door because Walker said they did. He said the police didn’t identify themselves but that they were pounding on the door. He even said Taylor yelled to ask who was it so it was long enough for them to get out of bed and him to get his gun before the door was kicked in. Those are his words so I feel comfortable saying it’s true. To be clear, I was trying to be clear that the second part that started with “Maybe” was speculative as a counter to what you laid out. It was not my account of what happened. It was just another option which is why i said “who the hell knows” and said we shouldn’t speculate.
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 25, 2020 18:48:56 GMT -5
Yet I truly believe this happened because of life choices Taylor made. It's a truly tragic event she died, yet there is much more to this story than what most news stations are truly reporting. She died because she was in such fear that she worked her BF up to the point that he just fired without knowing who it was. He's lucky to not be charged because of current events and the Police messing up. If she didn't have his money why else was she is so much fear that her EXs guys would come after her? I don’t understand the point of this. There was no good reason for the cops to be going into her apartment that night. They went in because there MIGHT be drugs in her apartment. Who gives a crap? Oh my god drugs. You know what they could have done? Walked up to the door in the middle of the day and showed her a warrant to search her apartment. Or better yet, NOT searched her apartment because you had no real evidence she had any drugs. And guess what... she didn’t!
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Post by beasleyrockah on Sept 25, 2020 22:35:37 GMT -5
]I said it was a fact they knocked on the door because Walker said they did. He said the police didn’t identify themselves but that they were pounding on the door. He even said Taylor yelled to ask who was it so it was long enough for them to get out of bed and him to get his gun before the door was kicked in. Those are his words so I feel comfortable saying it’s true. To be clear, I was trying to be clear that the second part that started with “Maybe” was speculative as a counter to what you laid out. It was not my account of what happened. It was just another option which is why i said “who the hell knows” and said we shouldn’t speculate. I understand what you're saying, maybe it's just arguing semantics - the difference between knocking on the door in an honest attempt to get the occupants to answer vs pounding the door with the intent to force it open. What's an acceptable standard for announcing yourself (how loud, how long, repeated how many times, etc)? It's ultimately just speculation to say the police did a poor job of making their presence known, but this specific situation should've been avoidable. At the very least we had the technology to document it and didn't, so we can't properly learn from it. My frustration comes from the lack of transparency and consistency we see in this case and so many others, along with the resistance to even minor common sense reforms. The police have a very tough job, partly because they're given so much discretion to navigate vague procedures and standards. They handle so many different situations, often with questionable training. They encounter dangerous people in high risk scenarios and they see acts of evil and violence, all while dealing with institutional forces that make their job even more difficult. The culture is intense, and with so many citizens criticizing the police it's easy to see why they've become more insular. For the earlier "incentive" comment, I was talking specifically about their goal with the warrant. The police officers individually have two incentives to identify themselves, professionalism and self preservation. The goal of the search warrant is to find evidence though, and obtaining a no knock warrant specifically implies more aggressive execution of the warrant. They scheduled it around 1AM for a reason, and it wasn't so she'd be alert and responsive. Ultimately it's a conflict of interest, right? Police want to apprehend them quickly and without a struggle, but they don't want to give them an advanced warning so they have an opportunity to destroy evidence. They want to identify themselves so they aren't mistaken for civilians, but they don't want to give dangerous suspects who mean them harm the upper hand with too much advanced warning. These individual officers are asked to balance these interests, and that's a tough job. It's important to note no drugs or money were found at her house. Police suggested they didn't search the house as thoroughly as normal due to the shooting, but I think that's an excuse for not finding anything to use as evidence. Even if she was involved at some point, she clearly wasn't some kingpin with elaborate stash compartments that police simply couldn't find in time. It's understandable why she was included in the investigation, but there's also evidence that her connection was based on outdated info. She most likely wasn't using some advanced code, she had a romantic relationship with a guy who sold drugs. Maybe it's unfair to question the police's information and surveillance, but it would've let them know her new boyfriend was inside. If they hadn't been following her recently the search was just a shot in the dark based on old information, so that's another problem.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 25, 2020 22:48:36 GMT -5
He didn’t fire thru a closed door - he fired after they busted down the door. Criminals do kick down doors too. How didn't he know they were police then? Criminals wear police uniforms, badges, bullet proof vest that say Police? What he opened up fire without looking?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 25, 2020 22:56:21 GMT -5
Yet I truly believe this happened because of life choices Taylor made. It's a truly tragic event she died, yet there is much more to this story than what most news stations are truly reporting. She died because she was in such fear that she worked her BF up to the point that he just fired without knowing who it was. He's lucky to not be charged because of current events and the Police messing up. If she didn't have his money why else was she is so much fear that her EXs guys would come after her? I don’t understand the point of this. There was no good reason for the cops to be going into her apartment that night. They went in because there MIGHT be drugs in her apartment. Who gives a crap? Oh my god drugs. You know what they could have done? Walked up to the door in the middle of the day and showed her a warrant to search her apartment. Or better yet, NOT searched her apartment because you had no real evidence she had any drugs. And guess what... she didn’t! Where are you getting drugs? The search warrant was for drug money as in she was the stash house for a major drug dealer. They had a ton of evidence, where you getting no evidence? They never searched the place after the shooting happened, so we have no clue if she did. You can debate the drug laws, yet they currently are laws. I'm assuming they did it at night with a planned no knock warrant to avoid this. How do you argue against that when her BF has a gun? The bigger question is why get a no knock warrant and not use it? Cause yeah doing what they did would have been better during the day.
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 26, 2020 4:54:44 GMT -5
He didn’t fire thru a closed door - he fired after they busted down the door. Criminals do kick down doors too. How didn't he know they were police then? Criminals wear police uniforms, badges, bullet proof vest that say Police? What he opened up fire without looking? They were plain clothed officers - they were not wearing uniforms. Also; it was midnight and they were in bed, so I’m sure the lights weren’t on and badges around the neck aren’t easy to identify.
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 26, 2020 5:07:05 GMT -5
I don’t understand the point of this. There was no good reason for the cops to be going into her apartment that night. They went in because there MIGHT be drugs in her apartment. Who gives a crap? Oh my god drugs. You know what they could have done? Walked up to the door in the middle of the day and showed her a warrant to search her apartment. Or better yet, NOT searched her apartment because you had no real evidence she had any drugs. And guess what... she didn’t! Where are you getting drugs? The search warrant was for drug money as in she was the stash house for a major drug dealer. They had a ton of evidence, where you getting no evidence? They never searched the place after the shooting happened, so we have no clue if she did. You can debate the drug laws, yet they currently are laws. I'm assuming they did it at night with a planned no knock warrant to avoid this. How do you argue against that when her BF has a gun? The bigger question is why get a no knock warrant and not use it? Cause yeah doing what they did would have been better during the day. She was supposedly a stash house where she received packages so they were looking for drugs and money. Regardless, I am questioning the laws and methods not if the cops should be in jail or not. I’m not in favor of putting cops in jail for doing the job they were trained to do. We need to change the methods. I’d rather keep a drug dealer on the street than kill an innocent person. Drugs just aren’t important enough to be raiding and destroying people’s property unless there are extreme circumstances. It’s not just drugs either: there are countless examples of police “doing their jobs” and destroying someone’s house or “seizing” their stuff that’s perfectly legal. This happens to people who are innocent or when police have no case all to often. Hell there was a case not long ago where a gun man ran into someone else’s house, when they weren’t home and the cops shot up the house so bad it looked like a bomb went off. Between the flash grenades and bullets etc the house was completely destroyed. The people got next to nothing in damages because it was normal police action. These are the types of things that need to change.
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 26, 2020 5:09:43 GMT -5
I argue against the boyfriend had a gun part because he was a legal gun owner with no criminal record. It doesn’t take much investigating to know who’s in that apartment and that they aren’t known criminals. If you can’t at least do that much then you shouldn’t be serving a warrant.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 26, 2020 12:31:48 GMT -5
How didn't he know they were police then? Criminals wear police uniforms, badges, bullet proof vest that say Police? What he opened up fire without looking? They were plain clothed officers - they were not wearing uniforms. Also; it was midnight and they were in bed, so I’m sure the lights weren’t on and badges around the neck aren’t easy to identify. RJP I just watched the body cam footage and they are in tactical gear, wearing vests with huge white letters saying police. I thought they were watching a movie, not sleeping? This just highlights the issues as Reports are all over the place and many are crazy vague. The news should make these cases crystal clear, not just reporting what fits their agenda. Everyone has a different opinion based on what article they read, which is crazy. It doesn't change the fact that he fired a weapon at targets not knowing who they were. Which is the biggest no no in gun ownership. Imagine it was a bunch of kids, or the fire department. Something was going on for them to be so scared that people were coming after them that he fired without knowing who he was firing. Why else are they scared the ex's buddies are coming after them when he's in jail if they didn't have something? The BFs own words of why he fired backs up the warrant.
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 26, 2020 12:45:41 GMT -5
They were plain clothed officers - they were not wearing uniforms. Also; it was midnight and they were in bed, so I’m sure the lights weren’t on and badges around the neck aren’t easy to identify. RJP I just watched the body cam footage and they are in tactical gear, wearing vests with huge white letters saying police. I thought they were watching a movie, not sleeping? This just highlights the issues as Reports are all over the place and many are crazy vague. The news should make these cases crystal clear, not just reporting what fits their agenda. Everyone has a different opinion based on what article they read, which is crazy. It doesn't change the fact that he fired a weapon at targets not knowing who they were. Which is the biggest no no in gun ownership. Imagine it was a bunch of kids, or the fire department. Something was going on for them to be so scared that people were coming after them that he fired without knowing who he was firing. Why else are they scared the ex's buddies are coming after them when he's in jail if they didn't have something? The BFs own words of why he fired backs up the warrant. Those cops you see in the video are the ones that show up after the shooting. Watch the video again the guy they are picking up is the cop who was shot. He’s in a black shirt and dark pants that look like black jeans. The tactical gear are not the 3 cops who were serving the warrant. Hard to see in screen shot below but the guy on right is Mattingly on the ground. He’s not in tactical police gear.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 26, 2020 12:47:08 GMT -5
Where are you getting drugs? The search warrant was for drug money as in she was the stash house for a major drug dealer. They had a ton of evidence, where you getting no evidence? They never searched the place after the shooting happened, so we have no clue if she did. You can debate the drug laws, yet they currently are laws. I'm assuming they did it at night with a planned no knock warrant to avoid this. How do you argue against that when her BF has a gun? The bigger question is why get a no knock warrant and not use it? Cause yeah doing what they did would have been better during the day. She was supposedly a stash house where she received packages so they were looking for drugs and money. Regardless, I am questioning the laws and methods not if the cops should be in jail or not. I’m not in favor of putting cops in jail for doing the job they were trained to do. We need to change the methods. I’d rather keep a drug dealer on the street than kill an innocent person. Drugs just aren’t important enough to be raiding and destroying people’s property unless there are extreme circumstances. It’s not just drugs either: there are countless examples of police “doing their jobs” and destroying someone’s house or “seizing” their stuff that’s perfectly legal. This happens to people who are innocent or when police have no case all to often. Hell there was a case not long ago where a gun man ran into someone else’s house, when they weren’t home and the cops shot up the house so bad it looked like a bomb went off. Between the flash grenades and bullets etc the house was completely destroyed. The people got next to nothing in damages because it was normal police action. These are the types of things that need to change. I agree with the first part, yet is this really a case for that? The BF fired at Police, not the other way around. If you literally start not enforcing laws because people will shoot at Police, then you better just pull all Police from the inner cities. Which literally seems to be the goal of this movement with defund Police. You can do your best, yet you never know what people will do. Innocent people will die if people open fire on Police. I don't care about things like Weed, yet hard core drugs kill people. You have to go after guys who deal meth, heroin, crack, fentanyl, etc. Police only seize things if you can't proof you didn't buy them with illegal funds, which is crazy easy for most people. You hear about a few crazy cases, but I don't think that's some huge issue that is national. Those are more issues in a few parts of this Country. Like what City doesn't have insurance to pay for damages Police do? I certainly don't agree with just let people get away with crimes. Take the Wendy's case, with the drunk driver passed out in the drive through line, who assaulted police, took a taser and tried to fire it at them. The BLM movement solution? We should just let him go, not how about you don't fight with Police and steal a taser. Two way street with this issues, not just one side.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 26, 2020 12:50:51 GMT -5
RJP I just watched the body cam footage and they are in tactical gear, wearing vests with huge white letters saying police. I thought they were watching a movie, not sleeping? This just highlights the issues as Reports are all over the place and many are crazy vague. The news should make these cases crystal clear, not just reporting what fits their agenda. Everyone has a different opinion based on what article they read, which is crazy. It doesn't change the fact that he fired a weapon at targets not knowing who they were. Which is the biggest no no in gun ownership. Imagine it was a bunch of kids, or the fire department. Something was going on for them to be so scared that people were coming after them that he fired without knowing who he was firing. Why else are they scared the ex's buddies are coming after them when he's in jail if they didn't have something? The BFs own words of why he fired backs up the warrant. Those cops you see in the video are the ones that show up after the shooting. Watch the video again the guy they are picking up is the cop who was shot. He’s in a black shirt and dark pants that look like black jeans. The tactical gear are not the 3 cops who were serving the warrant. Hard to see in screen shot below but the guy on right is Mattingly on the ground. He’s not in tactical police gear. He's wearing what they all are, they just took his gear off after he was shot. Those aren't cops that showed up, that's the team there to serve the warrant. Cops that would show up would be regular uniform Police.
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 26, 2020 13:00:23 GMT -5
Those cops you see in the video are the ones that show up after the shooting. Watch the video again the guy they are picking up is the cop who was shot. He’s in a black shirt and dark pants that look like black jeans. The tactical gear are not the 3 cops who were serving the warrant. Hard to see in screen shot below but the guy on right is Mattingly on the ground. He’s not in tactical police gear. He's wearing what they all are, they just took his gear off after he was shot. Those aren't cops that showed up, that's the team there to serve the warrant. Cops that would show up would be regular uniform Police. They were the back up cops that entered after the fact. They hadn’t arrested Walker yet hence the reason they were in tactically moving towards the apartment at the end of the video. There were only 3 cops serving the warrant at the door all plainclothed. Walker had to call 9-1-1 himself to get an ambulance there that’s how long it took after they returned fire and dealt with Mattingly’s injuries. That body cam footage is after the fact. He’s not in the same gear. You can’t find one report that says he wasn’t in plainclothes because the ones serving the warrant were.
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 26, 2020 13:04:46 GMT -5
What happened to Ms Taylor? Shortly after midnight on Friday 13 March, she was in bed with her boyfriend, Kenneth Walker, when they heard a banging on the door. Plainclothes Louisville police officers were carrying out a narcotics raid, and they used a battering ram to enter the property. www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-54273317
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 26, 2020 13:08:34 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 26, 2020 13:09:55 GMT -5
The Crux of Walkers defense is the fact they were plain clothed and there’s no evidence that disputes that other than you assuming they took clothes off an officer before the body can starts.
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