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Who is sent to AAA when Grissom and Cooper are actived
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Post by puzzler on Apr 29, 2024 10:07:37 GMT -5
The difference between Dalbec and Reyes to me is pretty simple. He's played well defensively and Reyes hasn't. Neither one of them can hit a lick, but if Dalbec accidentally puts the bat on the ball, his ball goes a lot further. Right now, if everything were a binary decision, I would play Dalbec over Reyes at every single position on the infield. Hamilton should never play another major league baseball game outside of being a pinch runner. Over Valdez is a no brainer as well, because Valdez can only play one position and he desperately needs to figure out his bat somewhere not on a major league roster. I can't stand Dalbec's at bats - but he is a far better player defensively than any of Reyes, Hamilton, or Valdez. EDIT: It's fair to say that Dalbec isn't playable - but I don't know how he is less playable than Reyes, Hamilton or Valdez at this point. EDIT 2: He's also the only one of the four that has put down a decent bunt this entire season. Is that even true, though? Bob has been steady, but he's had a handful of misplays, including two in back to back plays in this series (missed scoop, bobbled a ball when he had time to throw a runner out at the plate). Reyes' arm is clearly weaker, but he handles his glove well enough, and is totally fine for a start at 3B every few weeks. The difference in glove between him and Dalbec at either infield corner in occasional backup starts is less than the benefit from Hamilton as a pinch runner on a nightly basis, and the delta between Bob's bat and Reyes' bat (which feels gross to even say with how bad Reyes has been at the plate, but Dalbec has been even worse). Hamilton is not unplayable in the way Dalbec is. His bat has been normal bad, not a wet noodle, and he's probably average at 2B. It's shocking to me that people have turned on him this quickly compared to Dalbec given the much larger and multi-year sample of Dalbec sucking. Hamilton is in his age 26 season and hasn't had much MLB experience. Dalbec is in his age 29 season and has been producing steadily worse since the 2020 season. He's been awful since 2022, and in 2021 he was merely not very good. And Hamilton has been the worst of the four defensively in the shortest amount of playing time - not to mention the two missed bags with his foot. The stat guys are dismissing the bad iq baseball for no reason at this point. I'm going with the guy who has played well defensively and can play well at all four spots on the infield.
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Post by incandenza on Apr 29, 2024 10:09:17 GMT -5
But Reyes has been a much better hitter than Dalbec: a 25 wRC+ vs. -3. That 28 point gap is the same as the career difference between Jackie Bradley Jr. and Xander Bogaerts. I'd expect both of them to positively regress somewhat, but I'd expect Reyes to continue to be a better hitter, and probably by a substantial margin. Let's say you're right and he is a slightly better hitter than Dalbec (the Bradley/Bogaerts stuff is nonsense), he's been a significantly worse fielder. Why is that nonsense? He hasn't been a slightly better hitter than Dalbec; he's been a lot better. And he's been a worse fielder but has more (and more useful to this team) positional flexibility. I'd also expect positive regression on defense; he looked pretty good to me last year and most of his trouble this season has been at SS. I think he's fine as a 2B/3B guy. And I think you're really giving Dalbec an awfully generous evaluation if you think he would be better at 2B or SS in the long run.
Though it looks like this may be academic...
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Apr 29, 2024 10:09:18 GMT -5
Probably depends on if they trust Grissom to rotate to 1B or 3B in a pinch too, he's at least tall enough for 1B though I don't know that he's played there and I know he was originally projected to slide to 3B when he moved of SS rather than 2B. If they think he can you can carry hamilton/reyes as your backups and let valdez get his swing back in AAA otherwise I think you keep Dalbec for a plus fielding corner IF backup I don't think they should mess around much with Grissom. If this team competes in 2024 or especially in 2025 he can be a major piece, if he becomes a good defensive 2b and taps his offensive potential. He needs to continue to learn 2b and he needs not to be playing 7 days a week after coming back from a groin injury. Playing 1b is also not a good idea after a groin injury. I have no problem with him being the backup 1b in 2025.
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rhswanzey
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Post by rhswanzey on Apr 29, 2024 10:10:35 GMT -5
I understand that Grissom did not work out at shortstop in Atlanta last year, but I’m curious if the team would consider him as capable of being the primary backup there. Is he worse there than Hamilton or Reyes? I don’t think that’s the plan for Tuesday, but I’m thinking more as the season continues to play out.
I think both Valdez and Grissom fit on the roster if Grissom is capable of playing a small handful of shortstop innings every month. I have Valdez as a notably better bat than Dalbec, Hamilton or Reyes. The problem is he hasn’t been able to take advantage of this opportunity, so he isn’t forcing the issue, and at that point he’s better served getting regular at bats. I want to see him again.
My sense is all of Grissom, Hamilton and Reyes are OK as emergency shortstops - like when we play Wong at 1B or 2B - but we don’t have a traditional slick fielding backup middle infielder. Even in my vision where both Valdez and Grissom are rostered and Grissom may Swiss Army knife his way around a little bit while still getting most of the 2B time… in that scenario, you’d still probably like to have a real middle infield glove in the mix, too.
EDIT: wow, did *not* expect Reyes DFA - subtext of my post was I felt like that’s something that’s happening today if Valdez is hitting like he did last May. You fake it at shortstop with 1-2 of the other guys mentioned above, not because they’re good at it, but because Reyes hasn’t been very good there either. Didn’t expect this move because no one in the Dalbec/Hamilton/Valdez group has earned a secure roster spot.. no one forced the issue.
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Post by notstarboard on Apr 29, 2024 10:10:58 GMT -5
DFAing Pablo makes the picture crystal clear. Unless they sign someone else, Dalbec is going to back up 1B/3B and Hamilton is going to back up 2B/SS. Valdez is going to get sent down.
Wouldn't be surprised if Pablo clears, especially with the May 1st castoffs looming. It wasn't a bad time to DFA him.
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Post by James Dunne on Apr 29, 2024 10:11:14 GMT -5
Pablo Reyes has been DFA'ed to make room for Garrett Cooper Given the current depth situation, this is a move I very strongly disagree with.
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Post by notstarboard on Apr 29, 2024 10:14:35 GMT -5
Is that even true, though? Bob has been steady, but he's had a handful of misplays, including two in back to back plays in this series (missed scoop, bobbled a ball when he had time to throw a runner out at the plate). Reyes' arm is clearly weaker, but he handles his glove well enough, and is totally fine for a start at 3B every few weeks. The difference in glove between him and Dalbec at either infield corner in occasional backup starts is less than the benefit from Hamilton as a pinch runner on a nightly basis, and the delta between Bob's bat and Reyes' bat (which feels gross to even say with how bad Reyes has been at the plate, but Dalbec has been even worse). Hamilton is not unplayable in the way Dalbec is. His bat has been normal bad, not a wet noodle, and he's probably average at 2B. It's shocking to me that people have turned on him this quickly compared to Dalbec given the much larger and multi-year sample of Dalbec sucking. Hamilton is in his age 26 season and hasn't had much MLB experience. Dalbec is in his age 29 season and has been producing steadily worse since the 2020 season. He's been awful since 2022, and in 2021 he was merely not very good. And Hamilton has been the worst of the four defensively in the shortest amount of playing time - not to mention the two missed bags with his foot. The stat guys are dismissing the bad iq baseball for no reason at this point. I'm going with the guy who has played well defensively and can play well at all four spots on the infield. How do you figure he's the worst defensively? Dalbec and Valdez would have looked worse than Hamilton at SS, and Hamilton would probably be just fine at 2B. It's a mistake, but not necessarily a bad IQ play to miss the bag when trying to drag your toe, especially when you're trying to rush a turn. Let's not forget that he has the least MLB experience of all of these guys and is still adjusting to the speed of the MLB game. He only has 81 career PA at the MLB level.
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Post by puzzler on Apr 29, 2024 10:17:10 GMT -5
Let's say you're right and he is a slightly better hitter than Dalbec (the Bradley/Bogaerts stuff is nonsense), he's been a significantly worse fielder. Why is that nonsense? He hasn't been a slightly better hitter than Dalbec; he's been a lot better. And he's been a worse fielder but has more (and more useful to this team) positional flexibility. I'd also expect positive regression on defense; he looked pretty good to me last year and most of his trouble this season has been at SS. I think he's fine as a 2B/3B guy.
Though it looks like this may be academic...
Reyes has been pretty awful in the field at every position except 1B - the idea that he has more positional flexibility is absurd. It's nonsense because Bradley and Bogaerts have careers as solid major league players - which is something that Dalbec and Reyes don't have. You're talking about 200-250 pitches on a season and trying to make it meaningful by comparing them to guys who have over 14,000 and over 22,000 pitches. It's absurd.
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Post by asm18 on Apr 29, 2024 10:19:14 GMT -5
Pablo Reyes has been DFA'ed to make room for Garrett Cooper Given the current depth situation, this is a move I very strongly disagree with. It's justifiable based on how he's played through one month so far, but yeah - not sure why they felt the need to do it now. They do have two open 40 man spots and as others have noted the May 1st opt-outs may be coming - curious if there's another shoe or two to drop here
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Post by puzzler on Apr 29, 2024 10:22:53 GMT -5
And Hamilton has been the worst of the four defensively in the shortest amount of playing time - not to mention the two missed bags with his foot. The stat guys are dismissing the bad iq baseball for no reason at this point. I'm going with the guy who has played well defensively and can play well at all four spots on the infield. How do you figure he's the worst defensively? Dalbec and Valdez would have looked worse than Hamilton at SS, and Hamilton would probably be just fine at 2B. It's a mistake, but not necessarily a bad IQ play to miss the bag when trying to drag your toe, especially when you're trying to rush a turn. Let's not forget that he has the least MLB experience of all of these guys and is still adjusting to the speed of the MLB game. He only has 81 career PA at the MLB level. In twelve games, Hamilton has -3 OAA, -2 DRS, 3 errors and two missed bags (one running). That's the worst record among the four pretty clearly.
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rhswanzey
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Post by rhswanzey on Apr 29, 2024 10:26:01 GMT -5
Reyes had -2 OAA, -2 DRS at shortstop in 13.2 innings
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Post by puzzler on Apr 29, 2024 10:27:00 GMT -5
Reyes had -2 OAA at shortstop in 13.2 innings Yup, which is another reason why I'd rather have Dalbec than either of them.
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Post by incandenza on Apr 29, 2024 10:31:41 GMT -5
Why is that nonsense? He hasn't been a slightly better hitter than Dalbec; he's been a lot better. And he's been a worse fielder but has more (and more useful to this team) positional flexibility. I'd also expect positive regression on defense; he looked pretty good to me last year and most of his trouble this season has been at SS. I think he's fine as a 2B/3B guy.
Though it looks like this may be academic...
Reyes has been pretty awful in the field at every position except 1B - the idea that he has more positional flexibility is absurd. It's nonsense because Bradley and Bogaerts have careers as solid major league players - which is something that Dalbec and Reyes don't have. You're talking about 200-250 pitches on a season and trying to make it meaningful by comparing them to guys who have over 14,000 and over 22,000 pitches. It's absurd. You keep using that word "absurd." I do not think it means what you think it means.
On positional flexibility, Reyes literally plays more positions than Dalbec, so I really wouldn't call that claim "absurd."
I'm trying not to repeat myself on the point that gradations of badness matter, but I'll just sum it up like this: Dalbec can simply not hit a baseball anymore. I'm pretty sure his batting line is worse than the average pitcher's was back when they hit. So, again, if I'm expecting Dalbec to continue to be a significantly worse hitter than Reyes, as he has been this season and was last season, I don't think that's "absurd."
ADD: I'm kind of marvelling at the fact, not just that you think Dalbec is a better 2B/SS than Reyes or Hamilton, but that you're treating it as self-evident, when he has a total of 82 innings at those two positions combined - including his entire minor league career.
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shagworthy
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Post by shagworthy on Apr 29, 2024 10:47:03 GMT -5
Probably depends on if they trust Grissom to rotate to 1B or 3B in a pinch too, he's at least tall enough for 1B though I don't know that he's played there and I know he was originally projected to slide to 3B when he moved of SS rather than 2B. If they think he can you can carry hamilton/reyes as your backups and let valdez get his swing back in AAA otherwise I think you keep Dalbec for a plus fielding corner IF backup I don't think they should mess around much with Grissom. If this team competes in 2024 or especially in 2025 he can be a major piece, if he becomes a good defensive 2b and taps his offensive potential. He needs to continue to learn 2b and he needs not to be playing 7 days a week after coming back from a groin injury. Playing 1b is also not a good idea after a groin injury. I have no problem with him being the backup 1b in 2025. Agreed.. Remember a few years back when Arroyo was hot and they tried him out at 1B out of desperation and he immediately did an ill advised split and went on the DL? Lets ease the kid in..
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Apr 29, 2024 10:50:10 GMT -5
Reyes has been pretty awful in the field at every position except 1B - the idea that he has more positional flexibility is absurd. It's nonsense because Bradley and Bogaerts have careers as solid major league players - which is something that Dalbec and Reyes don't have. You're talking about 200-250 pitches on a season and trying to make it meaningful by comparing them to guys who have over 14,000 and over 22,000 pitches. It's absurd. You keep using that word "absurd." I do not think it means what you think it means.
On positional flexibility, Reyes literally plays more positions than Dalbec, so I really wouldn't call that claim "absurd."
I'm trying not to repeat myself on the point that gradations of badness matter, but I'll just sum it up like this: Dalbec can simply not hit a baseball anymore. I'm pretty sure his batting line is worse than the average pitcher's was back when they hit. So, again, if I'm expecting Dalbec to continue to be a significantly worse hitter than Reyes, as he has been this season and was last season, I don't think that's "absurd."
ADD: I'm kind of marvelling at the fact, not just that you think Dalbec is a better 2B/SS than Reyes or Hamilton, but that you're treating it as self-evident, when he has a total of 82 innings at those two positions combined - including his entire minor league career.
This move makes me wonder if they’re gonna option Hamilton and find a way to add Sogard to the 40 man in place of him. He adds far more positional flexibility in the MIF (plus can play OF) and has wayyyyy more defensive upside.
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Post by trotman on Apr 29, 2024 10:50:30 GMT -5
I don't think they should mess around much with Grissom. If this team competes in 2024 or especially in 2025 he can be a major piece, if he becomes a good defensive 2b and taps his offensive potential. He needs to continue to learn 2b and he needs not to be playing 7 days a week after coming back from a groin injury. Playing 1b is also not a good idea after a groin injury. I have no problem with him being the backup 1b in 2025. Agreed.. Remember a few years back when Arroyo was hot and they tried him out at 1B out of desperation and he immediately did an ill advised split and went on the DL? Lets ease the kid in.. Wasn't that really the last time Arroyo produced? I think after that injury he performed worse and got hurt again.
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Post by puzzler on Apr 29, 2024 10:57:09 GMT -5
Reyes has been pretty awful in the field at every position except 1B - the idea that he has more positional flexibility is absurd. It's nonsense because Bradley and Bogaerts have careers as solid major league players - which is something that Dalbec and Reyes don't have. You're talking about 200-250 pitches on a season and trying to make it meaningful by comparing them to guys who have over 14,000 and over 22,000 pitches. It's absurd. You keep using that word "absurd." I do not think it means what you think it means.
On positional flexibility, Reyes literally plays more positions than Dalbec, so I really wouldn't call that claim "absurd."
I'm trying not to repeat myself on the point that gradations of badness matter, but I'll just sum it up like this: Dalbec can simply not hit a baseball anymore. I'm pretty sure his batting line is worse than the average pitcher's was back when they hit. So, again, if I'm expecting Dalbec to continue to be a significantly worse hitter than Reyes, as he has been this season and was last season, I don't think that's "absurd."
ADD: I'm kind of marvelling at the fact, not just that you think Dalbec is a better 2B/SS than Reyes or Hamilton, but that you're treating it as self-evident, when he has a total of 82 innings at those two positions combined - including his entire minor league career.
Kind of like you treating Reyes as self-evidently better at the plate after 20 plus games. But to your point on positional flexibility - Reyes has about 269 innings at SS and 289 innings at 2B. His record at SS isn't all that terrible - though it is not good so far this year in just 13.2 innings with -2 DRS. But he's actually been even worse at 2B with -6 DRS over those 289 innings. And he has 4 errors at 3B just this season in just 78 innings. I don't see a guy with greater positional flexibility - I see a guy who isn't good defensively and who doesn't hit, doesn't run all that well, can't bunt and really just doesn't belong in the major leagues.
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Post by bg23 on Apr 29, 2024 11:00:24 GMT -5
I think the Pablo dfa speaks to the team deciding they prefer Hamilton in the middle infield and prefer dalbec’s defense on the corners. Still a little surprised Pablo got the dfa given he is unlikely to stick in the organization.
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Post by entrylevelhitman on Apr 29, 2024 11:01:14 GMT -5
You keep using that word "absurd." I do not think it means what you think it means.
On positional flexibility, Reyes literally plays more positions than Dalbec, so I really wouldn't call that claim "absurd."
I'm trying not to repeat myself on the point that gradations of badness matter, but I'll just sum it up like this: Dalbec can simply not hit a baseball anymore. I'm pretty sure his batting line is worse than the average pitcher's was back when they hit. So, again, if I'm expecting Dalbec to continue to be a significantly worse hitter than Reyes, as he has been this season and was last season, I don't think that's "absurd."
ADD: I'm kind of marvelling at the fact, not just that you think Dalbec is a better 2B/SS than Reyes or Hamilton, but that you're treating it as self-evident, when he has a total of 82 innings at those two positions combined - including his entire minor league career.
This move makes me wonder if they’re gonna option Hamilton and find a way to add Sogard to the 40 man in place of him. He adds far more positional flexibility in the MIF (plus can play OF) and has wayyyyy more defensive upside. This is absolutely my preference, and as I conspiratorially pointed out in the team subreddit yesterday, Sogard did not play in yesterday's game in Toledo. There's already an open 40-man spot, so they don't even have to get creative there. He's Rule 5 eligible this offseason anyway. As I am very fond of saying, at a certain point, you have to see what's on the farm. It's not like he's torn the cover off the ball or anything, but he can competently play all over, and if you're going to have a 4 man bench (plus a DH who only DHs), then you need all the flexibility you can get.
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Apr 29, 2024 11:07:19 GMT -5
This move makes me wonder if they’re gonna option Hamilton and find a way to add Sogard to the 40 man in place of him. He adds far more positional flexibility in the MIF (plus can play OF) and has wayyyyy more defensive upside. This is absolutely my preference, and as I conspiratorially pointed out in the team subreddit yesterday, Sogard did not play in yesterday's game in Toledo. There's already an open 40-man spot, so they don't even have to get creative there. He's Rule 5 eligible this offseason anyway. As I am very fond of saying, at a certain point, you have to see what's on the farm. It's not like he's torn the cover off the ball or anything, but he can competently play all over, and if you're going to have a 4 man bench (plus a DH who only DHs), then you need all the flexibility you can get. If they have a 40 man spot, then Sogard for Hamilton *has* to be the swap after they option Valdez for Grissom. And man, if they do this all today, the team is gonna have a completely different (and exciting) new look tomorrow.
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Post by okin15 on Apr 29, 2024 11:08:33 GMT -5
Pablo Reyes has been DFA'ed to make room for Garrett Cooper Given the current depth situation, this is a move I very strongly disagree with. I think you're right James. They could us a RHH IF to sub in for Grissom and/or Raffy, on LHP nights, or just off-days. I guess it could be Dalbec, but like, he's not really a RH Hitter as much as he is a RH corner infielder. Maybe he can play a little 2B? And also, that makes Hamilton the only backup MIF available until Romy comes back... and he's same-handed with the guy who needs more off-days. Unless you option Valdez too, in which case you now have two guys who aren't great defensively and hit the same side as your starting (but needing rest) 2B backing up the two most important non-C positions on the diamond.
ADD: In a perfect more just world, Hamilton could back up (semi-platoon at) SS and 1B, while Dalbec does the same at 3B/2B, but I don't think either of them can really handle half that defensive alignment, nor are either an upgrade offensively despite the handedness advantage.
Also ADD: Wonder if Yoshida injury has much to do with this and Dalbec will continue to get playing time at 3B while Raffy DH's
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Post by oldfaithful2019 on Apr 29, 2024 11:08:59 GMT -5
Agreed.. Remember a few years back when Arroyo was hot and they tried him out at 1B out of desperation and he immediately did an ill advised split and went on the DL? Lets ease the kid in.. Wasn't that really the last time Arroyo produced? I think after that injury he performed worse and got hurt again. If Dalbec stays, for better or worse at the plate, then no one should have to play out of position at 1B. That is my best case scenario. Hamilton as the middle infield back up makes most sense with Reyes gone. Hamilton's base stealing/ running also makes him a useful bench player. Valdez is only an option for 2B. With every day players now at all 4 infield positions, Dalbec and Hamilton should be traditional back up only players at this point. Are they as a good a player as you'd like in those roles ? No, better options should be sought out. Are they the 2 options that make the most sense today ? I think so.
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Post by puzzler on Apr 29, 2024 11:09:48 GMT -5
This move makes me wonder if they’re gonna option Hamilton and find a way to add Sogard to the 40 man in place of him. He adds far more positional flexibility in the MIF (plus can play OF) and has wayyyyy more defensive upside. This is absolutely my preference, and as I conspiratorially pointed out in the team subreddit yesterday, Sogard did not play in yesterday's game in Toledo. There's already an open 40-man spot, so they don't even have to get creative there. He's Rule 5 eligible this offseason anyway. As I am very fond of saying, at a certain point, you have to see what's on the farm. It's not like he's torn the cover off the ball or anything, but he can competently play all over, and if you're going to have a 4 man bench (plus a DH who only DHs), then you need all the flexibility you can get. Plus he is a switch hitter.
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Post by incandenza on Apr 29, 2024 11:12:06 GMT -5
You keep using that word "absurd." I do not think it means what you think it means.
On positional flexibility, Reyes literally plays more positions than Dalbec, so I really wouldn't call that claim "absurd."
I'm trying not to repeat myself on the point that gradations of badness matter, but I'll just sum it up like this: Dalbec can simply not hit a baseball anymore. I'm pretty sure his batting line is worse than the average pitcher's was back when they hit. So, again, if I'm expecting Dalbec to continue to be a significantly worse hitter than Reyes, as he has been this season and was last season, I don't think that's "absurd."
ADD: I'm kind of marvelling at the fact, not just that you think Dalbec is a better 2B/SS than Reyes or Hamilton, but that you're treating it as self-evident, when he has a total of 82 innings at those two positions combined - including his entire minor league career.
Kind of like you treating Reyes as self-evidently better at the plate after 20 plus games. But to your point on positional flexibility - Reyes has about 269 innings at SS and 289 innings at 2B. His record at SS isn't all that terrible - though it is not good so far this year in just 13.2 innings with -2 DRS. But he's actually been even worse at 2B with -6 DRS over those 289 innings. And he has 4 errors at 3B just this season in just 78 innings. I don't see a guy with greater positional flexibility - I see a guy who isn't good defensively and who doesn't hit, doesn't run all that well, can't bunt and really just doesn't belong in the major leagues. I'm not treating it as self-evident - I'm providing evidence! Namely, that Reyes has been better at the plate, not just in 20 games but since the start of 2023 (85 games for Reyes, 41 games for Dalbec).
But I guess what this comes down to is that I just think Dalbec is so bad at the plate that any of the other comparisons don't matter; he just can't play anymore, and I have no real faith in a recovery. He had the worst K rate in the majors last year. He has the worst K rate in the majors this year. He's actually *outperforming* his xwOBA, which is .149 (a full 105 points worse than Reyes). There is, in my view, a large gap in the offensive performance between Dalbec and Reyes, both to date since the start of last season and in what I'd expect going forward.
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Post by scottysmalls on Apr 29, 2024 11:12:42 GMT -5
If they do call Sogard up in Reyes’ spot I would much much rather keep Hamilton on the roster than Dalbec
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