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2013 Non-Sox MLB Discussion
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Post by mredsox89 on Apr 9, 2013 13:24:09 GMT -5
The problem for MLB is that they can no longer "justify" any ball/strike calls. Their justifications were already awful, but now with all the pitchFX stuff and even the "K-zone" or whatever teams call it, along with Twitter, there is immediate and constant backlash when something like this happens. If an umps strike zone is consistently 2-3 inches off the plate, I don't have a huge issue with that. With the current technology we shouldn't have to deal with that, but it's not awful. But when stuff like last night happens, it's just downright awful. MLB continues to clamor for the human element, but all that does at this point is make the umpires look bad.
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Post by elguapo on Apr 9, 2013 13:24:44 GMT -5
Even Edwin Abbott Abbott wonders why we're still looking at the strike zone in 2D.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Apr 9, 2013 14:26:51 GMT -5
That strike 3 call deserves a fine and a suspension for incompetence. The camera angle makes it appear that the umpire was out of position from the start by being way inside even though the catcher was positioned slightly to the outside corner. The worst parts are that the catcher knew it was a bad pitch that you couldn't even attempt to frame and the umpire appeared to lose track of the ball and focused on the ground in front of the plate whereas the pitch almost bounched off the outside corner of the plate. I did enjoy seeing Madden take his typical sanctimonious approach during the post-game press conference. You knew he wanted to drop a bunch of f-bombs. Go to Fangraphs, read the article there about "the pitch" and come back. . . . Oh, you're back now. What did you think? That it's still a bad call, but is slightly more justifiable and probably doesn't deserve a fine and suspension? Yeah, I'm glad you changed your mind, too. All in all, I'll give the ump creadit for trying to ignore how bad a pitch framer Pierzynsky (or however you spell his name) is. I don't need to go to Fangraphs as I saw all I needed to see by watching the video. Pierzynski didn't even attempt to frame the pitch as it was so bad, combined with the fact that the umpire was out of position and he didn't even appear to be tracking the pitch. I still say that he deserves a fine and a suspension.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Apr 9, 2013 14:55:38 GMT -5
Thats one of the worst calls I've seen in a while, well at the WBC there was a worst call than that but lets stick to MLB, I don't know how anyone would even try to debate that. What was A.J(Much easier) suppose to frame? the ball was on the ground there was nothing to frame.
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Post by jmei on Apr 9, 2013 16:10:05 GMT -5
Cut the gif off a little earlier and it becomes merely a bad call and not the worst call of all time.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 9, 2013 17:22:25 GMT -5
The problem for MLB is that they can no longer "justify" any ball/strike calls. Their justifications were already awful, but now with all the pitchFX stuff and even the "K-zone" or whatever teams call it, along with Twitter, there is immediate and constant backlash when something like this happens. If an umps strike zone is consistently 2-3 inches off the plate, I don't have a huge issue with that. With the current technology we shouldn't have to deal with that, but it's not awful. But when stuff like last night happens, it's just downright awful. MLB continues to clamor for the human element, but all that does at this point is make the umpires look bad. IMO, this is a huge problem for baseball. Right now, the people charged will officiating the game have access to significantly less information than the average fan watching at home. Does anyone really want to invest themselves in a sport when they're constantly told that bad calls-- calls that could be made correctly simply by using available technology-- are simply "part of the game"? How can you ask people to take a sport like that seriously? And by the way, I don't care what Fangraphs says about this pitch. Maybe it wasn't as bad as it looks. Doesn't matter. It's one example of a thousand. This is a systematic problem and we all know it.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Apr 9, 2013 17:50:36 GMT -5
Dodgers and Pads are on MLB network tonight. Noticed Crawford is leading off. Checked their boxscores and noticed he's lead off in all 6 of his starts. Guess it's easier to lead off on West Coast not East Coast. Side bonus. They're bringing the Dodgers broadcast and listening to Vin Scully. That never gets old.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Apr 9, 2013 18:05:28 GMT -5
Dodgers and Pads are on MLB network tonight. Noticed Crawford is leading off. Checked their boxscores and noticed he's lead off in all 6 of his starts. Guess it's easier to lead off on West Coast not East Coast. Side bonus. They're bringing the Dodgers broadcast and listening to Vin Scully. That never gets old. Watching this right now and Beckett is getting hammered in the first inning. Its day time in San Diego and the ball is flying around. But he's struggling to get over 90 miles an hour on his piTches. He's not the same player. Coming to you from the great northwest
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 9, 2013 18:25:09 GMT -5
They're bringing the Dodgers broadcast and listening to Vin Scully. That never gets old. It's absolutely amazing how much Scully knows about each and every player on the field. He's talking about Clayton Richard's history as a quarterback at Michigan... Jerry Remy would be talking about last night's cab right or his tie or something.
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Post by jt44 on Apr 9, 2013 19:31:27 GMT -5
Does it upset anyone else that Placido Polanco is hitting cleanup for the Marlins? I can't believe how many people hate teams like the Yankees and Red Sox for spending a lot every year and no one hates the Marlins for swindling all of those taxpayers in Florida into buying them a new stadium, having a crazy fire sale, and then netting no franchise caliber players in said fire sale.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 9, 2013 20:17:44 GMT -5
Does it upset anyone else that Placido Polanco is hitting cleanup for the Marlins? I can't believe how many people hate teams like the Yankees and Red Sox for spending a lot every year and no one hates the Marlins for swindling all of those taxpayers in Florida into buying them a new stadium, having a crazy fire sale, and then netting no franchise caliber players in said fire sale. I do my part.
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Post by elguapo on Apr 9, 2013 20:34:22 GMT -5
Does it upset anyone else that Placido Polanco is hitting cleanup for the Marlins? No...good for him. Oh c'mon. I feel bad for the minority of voters who didn't support a massive giveaway to a baseball team, and I blame the politicians & crooked consultants & team & MLB officials who justified that nonsense, but I also blame the majority of voters who were asking, begging, pleading to be swindled and voted the politicians into office to enable it.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 9, 2013 20:40:44 GMT -5
I'd argue with the premise that nobody hates the Marlins. Johnny Sawxfan may not, but people who follow the game pretty much despise the Marlins and Loria.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Apr 9, 2013 21:15:06 GMT -5
I'd argue with the premise that nobody hates the Marlins. Johnny Sawxfan may not, but people who follow the game pretty much despise the Marlins and Loria. Right on, right on, right on!
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Post by jt44 on Apr 9, 2013 21:29:17 GMT -5
Does it upset anyone else that Placido Polanco is hitting cleanup for the Marlins? No...good for him. Oh c'mon. I feel bad for the minority of voters who didn't support a massive giveaway to a baseball team, and I blame the politicians & crooked consultants & team & MLB officials who justified that nonsense, but I also blame the majority of voters who were asking, begging, pleading to be swindled and voted the politicians into office to enable it. Yes, I agree, good for him, but it's the situation created by the Marlins management that has led to him hitting cleanup. Sorry for ranting. I still don't think people really hate the Marlins. They are essentially indifferent of the Marlins. Nobody cares because they are rarely relevant and they really don't have any rivalries. People who actually know that the owner's name is Loria probably dislike him very much but that's about it. It's just weird to turn on the TV and watch this crap the Marlins are putting on the field especially when they play in a brand new ballpark.
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Post by elguapo on Apr 9, 2013 21:47:39 GMT -5
I mean, really, why would anyone hate the Marlins per se? I disdain the owner and the commissioners office who walked hand in hand with him on this whole deal, but I don't generally hold the owner against a team. I'm probably more likely to root for them now - it's practically "Major League".
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Post by Oregon Norm on Apr 9, 2013 22:02:46 GMT -5
I mean, really, why would anyone hate the Marlins per se? I disdain the owner and the commissioners office who walked hand in hand with him on this whole deal, but I don't generally hold the owner against a team. I'm probably more likely to root for them now - it's practically "Major League". I took what Hatfield said to mean the way the Marlins are run - into the ground - and the ownership that does that. You're right no one hates the players, there's no reason to.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 9, 2013 22:36:50 GMT -5
I mean, really, why would anyone hate the Marlins per se? I disdain the owner and the commissioners office who walked hand in hand with him on this whole deal, but I don't generally hold the owner against a team. I'm probably more likely to root for them now - it's practically "Major League". I don't consider "the Marlins" to be the 25 guys in uniform, or even the baseball opps guys, because in the context of that team, those people don't really matter. They're just window dressing for an ongoing scam that Loria is running.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 10, 2013 1:29:40 GMT -5
I mean, really, why would anyone hate the Marlins per se? I disdain the owner and the commissioners office who walked hand in hand with him on this whole deal, but I don't generally hold the owner against a team. I'm probably more likely to root for them now - it's practically "Major League". I took what Hatfield said to mean the way the Marlins are run - into the ground - and the ownership that does that. You're right no one hates the players, there's no reason to. Yeah, I meant the laundry and ownership. How can you not love watching Stanton, for example? But that team is a bucket of yuck, the owner's a swindler, and they have that ridiculous home run thing in the outfield. I've enjoyed Miami in my visits there, but yeah, I wish ill on that team, if only to drive down their value to Loria.
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Post by jt44 on Apr 10, 2013 7:23:22 GMT -5
All good points. It's just unfortunate to watch a team who barely filled their old stadium, get a brand new stadium and nothing changes. Also, it is really unfortunate to watch Stanton. I don't think he's seen anything to hit so far this season and I think he's pressing a bit and swinging at crap.
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Post by raftsox on Apr 10, 2013 7:58:01 GMT -5
I don't need to go to Fangraphs as I saw all I needed to see by watching the video. Pierzynski didn't even attempt to frame the pitch as it was so bad, combined with the fact that the umpire was out of position and he didn't even appear to be tracking the pitch. I still say that he deserves a fine and a suspension. Ah, I see. Anything that might change your mind is to be ignored. If you were to go read the article and see where the pitch was caught WITHOUT Pierkynski's horrible catching it's (as JMEI says) merely a bad call. Bad calls happen all the time; sometimes to the hitters' benefit, sometimes to the pitchers' benefit. If you want to turn this into a conversation about what MLB should do to curtail bad calls then let's go ahead. I don't believe there should be computers deciding balls and strikes because I think you'll see walk rates skyrocket. I'd be in favor of a few "challenge" options for each manager though, that you could use on balls and strikes, which would be reviewable against a pitch/FX-esque determination.
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Post by raftsox on Apr 10, 2013 8:09:34 GMT -5
It's apalling that Loria is still allowed to own that team. He's a disgrace to the sport. Somehow MLB is ok with him, but they were talking about taking the Dodgers away from McCourt and wouldn't let what-his-face-Maverics-owner buy a team.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 10, 2013 8:27:24 GMT -5
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Post by Oregon Norm on Apr 10, 2013 10:17:12 GMT -5
Ah yes, King Jeffrey has his henchman Samson execute the neutron bomb strategy: save the assets, screw the people. Why would you need customers? You have your stadium, courtesy of those same customers. You have your business model: set up a consulting firm that sucks money into your pocket so that you can claim poverty and draw more from the MLB overlords. What the Marlins are really good at is gaming the mind-boggling complexity of revenue sharing and the luxury tax. Now many might claim that they simply did what the Sox found a way to do: dump salary and cultivate the farm system to give yourself a better chance in the future. But there's one crucial difference as we've seen during this off-season. The Sox have actually tried to field a competitive team. Since the season has just started, the results are most definitely not in. Good people can argue, as posters on this board do, whether the attempt will be a success or a failure. But we all have to agree they've at least tried. No such thought ever crosses the Marlins' leadership's collective mind. Speaking of visuals, stuff like this just hammers home the fact that the MLB overlords are living in a bubble, and in that bubble it's still the pre-Internet era. They don't seem to have a clue how this looks to the rest of the world. So they continue on their merry way, looking down their collective noses at the riff-raff banging on the door. Much better to cultivate the Loria's and McCourt's of the world. I mean these guys wear suits, just like the sharks on Wall Street. The devil you know...
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Post by bluechip on Apr 10, 2013 13:08:37 GMT -5
So the protesters got exactly what they wanted: media attention. By kicking out four fans, this got way more attention than if they had just ignored them.
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