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Post by Guidas on May 20, 2018 18:58:46 GMT -5
Just lookng at his numbers. Is he legit (small sample) or just enjoying being a bit old for the level?
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Post by telson13 on May 20, 2018 20:03:00 GMT -5
Just lookng at his numbers. Is he legit (small sample) or just enjoying being a bit old for the level? Idk if he’s all that old either tho...just turned 22. And if he gets promoted to Salem, that’s pretty much on-schedule for MLB at 24. Idk, sounds like he’s got four pitches and average stuff but knows how to pitch and spot. I’ll def be more interested once he faces high A and especially AA hitters. Those pitchability guys seem to carve up low A pretty easily.
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Post by ramireja on May 30, 2018 23:35:08 GMT -5
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radiohix
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Post by radiohix on Aug 4, 2021 16:40:04 GMT -5
This thread needs to get bumped. Crawford's has been nothing short of phenomenal this year:
| K/9 | BB/9 | FIP | Portland | 12.43 | 0.97 | 3.05 | Worcester | 11.45 | 3.27 | 1.90 |
Last night, he struck out 8 of the first 9 batters he faced. Nothing better in baseball than pitchers who pound the strike zone and miss bats. I think he should be added to the 40 man roster and be in the SP top 20.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Aug 4, 2021 17:52:45 GMT -5
This thread needs to get bumped. Crawford's has been nothing short of phenomenal this year:
| K/9 | BB/9 | FIP | Portland | 12.43 | 0.97 | 3.05 | Worcester | 11.45 | 3.27 | 1.90 |
Last night, he struck out 8 of the first 9 batters he faced. Nothing better in baseball than pitchers who pound the strike zone and miss bats. I think he should be added to the 40 man roster and be in the SP top 20.It's not like this is out of nowhere. This is what we always talked about as his ceiling, just was such a hard path to get there. No idea what's next, but love seeing him succeeding. Add him to the 40 man, keep challenging him and see what happens. He's 26 on opening day next year.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Aug 4, 2021 22:07:28 GMT -5
Longenhagen said he sees him as a rotation contributor next year and a backend starter long term. Still a pretty meteoric rise for Kutter.
Unfortunately he also said Downs is not a top 100 prospect in his book anymore.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Aug 8, 2021 0:20:19 GMT -5
Longenhagen said he sees him as a rotation contributor next year and a backend starter long term. Still a pretty meteoric rise for Kutter. Unfortunately he also said Downs is not a top 100 prospect in his book anymore. Kutter Crawford has been very impressive in 2021 !! He is definitely on my December 2021 Rule 5 list. ETA Boston June 2022.
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Post by jaffinator on Aug 8, 2021 8:55:05 GMT -5
Longenhagen said he sees him as a rotation contributor next year and a backend starter long term. Still a pretty meteoric rise for Kutter. Unfortunately he also said Downs is not a top 100 prospect in his book anymore. Kutter Crawford has been very impressive in 2021 !! He is definitely on my December 2021 Rule 5 list. ETA Boston June 2022. He certainly has the profile of someone another team might pick in the rule 5 draft.
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Post by ramireja on Sept 5, 2021 21:30:43 GMT -5
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Sept 5, 2021 22:56:22 GMT -5
Gonna need to see more but the 95-96 with great ride in the first bodes well for him being a decent reliever if he can’t hang as a starter
I expect the command to improve too, I’m sure he was a little amped up making his first big league start on a few hours notice
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Post by iakovos11 on Sept 8, 2021 10:07:46 GMT -5
In this article - www.masslive.com/redsox/2021/09/boston-red-sox-prospect-jay-groome-has-struck-out-321-of-hitters-become-different-pitcher-with-plus-slider.html posted in the Groome thread, there's another angle on Kutter Crawford. He has a nice 4-pitch mix, which often says starter. But if he's dropping velo after 2-3 innings, there's a chance he could be a very good bullpen piece. "Crawford might stick as a starter. But his command and velocity suggests he also might develop into a future setup man — or even closer. He has averaged 1.5 walks per nine innings in the minors this year. His willingness to go after hitters and throw strikes are nice qualities for a late-inning reliever. He also might be able to succeed in a multi-inning reliever role in close games like Garrett Whitlock has done this season." "He recorded nine swings-and-misses (2-plus innings), including seven swings-and-misses in the first inning and at least one with four of his pitches (fastball, cutter, curveball, sinker). He also topped out at 96 mph and threw 70% strikes."
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Sept 8, 2021 11:04:19 GMT -5
In this article - www.masslive.com/redsox/2021/09/boston-red-sox-prospect-jay-groome-has-struck-out-321-of-hitters-become-different-pitcher-with-plus-slider.html posted in the Groome thread, there's another angle on Kutter Crawford. He has a nice 4-pitch mix, which often says starter. But if he's dropping velo after 2-3 innings, there's a chance he could be a very good bullpen piece. "Crawford might stick as a starter. But his command and velocity suggests he also might develop into a future setup man — or even closer. He has averaged 1.5 walks per nine innings in the minors this year. His willingness to go after hitters and throw strikes are nice qualities for a late-inning reliever. He also might be able to succeed in a multi-inning reliever role in close games like Garrett Whitlock has done this season." "He recorded nine swings-and-misses (2-plus innings), including seven swings-and-misses in the first inning and at least one with four of his pitches (fastball, cutter, curveball, sinker). He also topped out at 96 mph and threw 70% strikes." Given that he has to be added to the 40 man anyway, maybe you fast track him and make the switch at least to the Whitlock role since that'll be more useful faster on a potentially packed 40-man. Seems a little harsh since he's shown so much growth as a starter.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 8, 2021 11:17:19 GMT -5
I could see them using Crawford and eventually Winchowski as one of those hybrid pitchers that Bloom likes, guys who can occasionally start, but more often can go long in relief, like getting 6 - 9 outs, sort of what Whitlock has been doing.
Whitlock will graduate to starter and Houck will get every chance to make it as a starter based on his premium stuff, but as others pointed out if he can't get that 3rd pitch working he probably winds up in the pen at some point. So while they graduate to the rotation I think Crawford inherits that role next season at some point.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Sept 8, 2021 11:46:09 GMT -5
I could see them using Crawford and eventually Winchowski as one of those hybrid pitchers that Bloom likes, guys who can occasionally start, but more often can go long in relief, like getting 6 - 9 outs, sort of what Whitlock has been doing. Whitlock will graduate to starter and Houck will get every chance to make it as a starter based on his premium stuff, but as others pointed out if he can't get that 3rd pitch working he probably winds up in the pen at some point. So while they graduate to the rotation I think Crawford inherits that role next season at some point. Not to get away from Crawford in this thread, but I don’t get the folks who see Houck in the pen… he is starting *now* and going about as long as other guys. If the trend is shorter starts and he seems fine at 4-5 innings… why move him? Crawford, on the other hand, looks more like a 1-2 inning guy. I don’t see him starting, but I think he plays up as a reliever. I guess what I mean is… more and more it looks like baseball is giving up on third-time-through as a threshold. It seems like you really have to be strong twice through, maybe eke out a bit more. Houck is clearly strong twoce through. Crawford looks like a once through guy.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 8, 2021 12:08:06 GMT -5
I could see them using Crawford and eventually Winchowski as one of those hybrid pitchers that Bloom likes, guys who can occasionally start, but more often can go long in relief, like getting 6 - 9 outs, sort of what Whitlock has been doing. Whitlock will graduate to starter and Houck will get every chance to make it as a starter based on his premium stuff, but as others pointed out if he can't get that 3rd pitch working he probably winds up in the pen at some point. So while they graduate to the rotation I think Crawford inherits that role next season at some point. Not to get away from Crawford in this thread, but I don’t get the folks who see Houck in the pen… he is starting *now* and going about as long as other guys. If the trend is shorter starts and he seems fine at 4-5 innings… why move him? Crawford, on the other hand, looks more like a 1-2 inning guy. I don’t see him starting, but I think he plays up as a reliever. I guess what I mean is… more and more it looks like baseball is giving up on third-time-through as a threshold. It seems like you really have to be strong twice through, maybe eke out a bit more. Houck is clearly strong twoce through. Crawford looks like a once through guy. That's my old fogeyism showing. I hate that starters only go 5 innings and that's about it. I know the generation before me was used to guys finishing what they started and I remember Billy Martin pushing the limits of that with the A's in the early 1980s before all of Steve McCatty, Mike Norris, Matt Keough, Rick Langford, and Brian Kingman all had arm issues or effectiveness issues. So I grew up with a good start to be proud of as 7 strong innings. So I'm really struggling with the concept that starters should look to exit after 5 innings, that they can only face about 18 batters. I mean where does it go? Do we get to the point it reduces down to 9 pitchers pitching an inning per game? So I see Houck and yeah, he's as good a 5 inning starter as anybody else, but my desire is to see him turn into a 7 inning starter, a guy who can average 5.75 - 6 innings per start but be capable of going 7 when he's having a good night. That's probably disconnected from our current reality. I believe Theo Epstein is working on a way to get away from the boring 3 true outcomes state of the game and along with it restore some luster to the starting pitcher by making it easier for him to go longer in the game with more balls being put into play quicker and less balls sailing into the stands. I'm not sure how he makes that happen, but it ties in with my memories of expecting a good outing to be about 7 innings long as opposed to all this 5 and dive stuff that goes on now. So I totally get your point. I just keep hoping that Houck figures out that 3rd pitch so he can face the lineup a 3rd time because this "the batter can't get through a lineup 3 times" stuff drives me crazy, but it's not surprising that the aim right now is to throw as hard as possible and when that wears off after 18 batters go to the next bat dodger, as opposed to pitchers pitching and pacing themselves to go as long as possible into a game. I guess in 20 years, the 20 year olds on the board will be reminiscing about the days when the starter could go five and how they didn't have to use an opener for 3 innings and have a reliever for each of the remaining 6 innings to get through a game. And the 20 years olds then will be reading it with an eye roll. lol
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Sept 8, 2021 12:11:40 GMT -5
Not to get away from Crawford in this thread, but I don’t get the folks who see Houck in the pen… he is starting *now* and going about as long as other guys. If the trend is shorter starts and he seems fine at 4-5 innings… why move him? Crawford, on the other hand, looks more like a 1-2 inning guy. I don’t see him starting, but I think he plays up as a reliever. I guess what I mean is… more and more it looks like baseball is giving up on third-time-through as a threshold. It seems like you really have to be strong twice through, maybe eke out a bit more. Houck is clearly strong twoce through. Crawford looks like a once through guy. That's my old fogeyism showing. I hate that starters only go 5 innings and that's about it. I know the generation before me was used to guys finishing what they started and I remember Billy Martin pushing the limits of that with the A's in the early 1980s before all of Steve McCatty, Mike Norris, Matt Keough, Rick Langford, and Brian Kingman all had arm issues or effectiveness issues. So I grew up with a good start to be proud of as 7 strong innings. So I'm really struggling with the concept that starters should look to exit after 5 innings, that they can only face about 18 batters. I mean where does it go? Do we get to the point it reduces down to 9 pitchers pitching an inning per game? So I see Houck and yeah, he's as good a 5 inning starter as anybody else, but my desire is to see him turn into a 7 inning starter, a guy who can average 5.75 - 6 innings per start but be capable of going 7 when he's having a good night. That's probably disconnected from our current reality. I believe Theo Epstein is working on a way to get away from the boring 3 true outcomes state of the game and along with it restore some luster to the starting pitcher by making it easier for him to go longer in the game with more balls being put into play quicker and less balls sailing into the stands. I'm not sure how he makes that happen, but it ties in with my memories of expecting a good outing to be about 7 innings long as opposed to all this 5 and dive stuff that goes on now. So I totally get your point. I just keep hoping that Houck figures out that 3rd pitch so he can face the lineup a 3rd time because this "the batter can't get through a lineup 3 times" stuff drives me crazy, but it's not surprising that the aim right now is to throw as hard as possible and when that wears off after 18 batters go to the next bat dodger, as opposed to pitchers pitching and pacing themselves to go as long as possible into a game. I guess in 20 years, the 20 year olds on the board will be reminiscing about the days when the starter could go five and how they didn't have to use an opener for 3 innings and have a reliever for each of the remaining 6 innings to get through a game. And the 20 years olds then will be reading it with an eye roll. lol For the record, I’m with you. I love complete games.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 8, 2021 12:27:26 GMT -5
Some numbers relevant to the above discussion:
2021 MLB IP/GS: 5.1 Lowest: 4.6 (BAL) Highest: 5.6 (OAK) Boston: 5.1
Pit/GS: 83 Lowest: 75 (TB) Highest: 91 (CIN) Boston: 86
47 CG in baseball so far this year. 5 teams have none, including the Red Sox (but keep in mind this might include 7 inning games). Leaders are PHI and CWS with 4.
For comparison, in 2011 the MLB average was 6.0 IP/GS, Baltimore was the lowest at 5.4, Philly the highest at 6.6. Doesn't appear to be a COVID thing either - 2019 average was 5.2 IP.
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Post by julyanmorley on Sept 8, 2021 12:27:27 GMT -5
At this point, Crawford has progressed to the point where I think the most likely outcome is that he's a nice bullpen piece in the majors. Unless they want him to keep starting games in AAA, then I think it's reasonable for them to expect him to win a job out of spring training next year.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 8, 2021 12:32:26 GMT -5
Now, as to substance, the question becomes whether a guy should be starting if he can only turn a lineup over twice. With Houck, you look at it as should he be pitching every fifth day for two turns through the order, or every like, third for one turn? He's starting right now because he is, in fact, one of their five best starters. But are you going to go into the year with a guy as a starter if you know he turns into a pumpkin after 4.2 IP (to be clear, we don't necessarily know that about Houck yet, although that's currently what he is)?
As to Crawford, I like him as a reliever. I can't read Chris Smith's story but he doesn't strike me as having closer stuff though. I don't hate the idea of him airing it out for 1-2 IP though - I thought that when I saw him in Greenville and Salem too, although the arsenal is kind of different now - sounds like the curve has taken a big step forward while the cutter has taken a bit of a step back.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Sept 8, 2021 12:45:00 GMT -5
Now, as to substance, the question becomes whether a guy should be starting if he can only turn a lineup over twice. With Houck, you look at it as should he be pitching every fifth day for two turns through the order, or every like, third for one turn? He's starting right now because he is, in fact, one of their five best starters. But are you going to go into the year with a guy as a starter if you know he turns into a pumpkin after 4.2 IP (to be clear, we don't necessarily know that about Houck yet, although that's currently what he is)? As to Crawford, I like him as a reliever. I can't read Chris Smith's story but he doesn't strike me as having closer stuff though. I don't hate the idea of him airing it out for 1-2 IP though - I thought that when I saw him in Greenville and Salem too, although the arsenal is kind of different now - sounds like the curve has taken a big step forward while the cutter has taken a bit of a step back. Fair. Taking your numbers above, if Houck is a pumpkin at 4.2, he is 2 outs from average. I guess I’m operating under the assumption that it will not be easy to find 5 guys who are all better than that. But I don’t dismiss the possibility altogether. Tying this in to the Shugart thread. The Sox seem to have a number of guys who could be multi-inning power relievers in the next two years. That seems new. I don’t recall that kind of development in the past. If they *did* end up with Houck, Crawford, maybe Shugart in the pen…. that has real potential.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 8, 2021 13:05:07 GMT -5
Keep in mind, the average includes openers though. Would love to see what effect that has played.
I'm also not sure this is something they haven't had in the past. It's probably more that it's not something we've thought about or that teams were doing. Would we have said the same when Barnes and Workman were moving to the bullpen?
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Sept 8, 2021 15:17:08 GMT -5
Now, as to substance, the question becomes whether a guy should be starting if he can only turn a lineup over twice. With Houck, you look at it as should he be pitching every fifth day for two turns through the order, or every like, third for one turn? He's starting right now because he is, in fact, one of their five best starters. But are you going to go into the year with a guy as a starter if you know he turns into a pumpkin after 4.2 IP (to be clear, we don't necessarily know that about Houck yet, although that's currently what he is)? As to Crawford, I like him as a reliever. I can't read Chris Smith's story but he doesn't strike me as having closer stuff though. I don't hate the idea of him airing it out for 1-2 IP though - I thought that when I saw him in Greenville and Salem too, although the arsenal is kind of different now - sounds like the curve has taken a big step forward while the cutter has taken a bit of a step back. Fair. Taking your numbers above, if Houck is a pumpkin at 4.2, he is 2 outs from average. I guess I’m operating under the assumption that it will not be easy to find 5 guys who are all better than that. But I don’t dismiss the possibility altogether. Tying this in to the Shugart thread. The Sox seem to have a number of guys who could be multi-inning power relievers in the next two years. That seems new. I don’t recall that kind of development in the past. If they *did* end up with Houck, Crawford, maybe Shugart in the pen…. that has real potential. The other thing about Houck is that it's mostly clear right now when he's effective and when he's not. If a manager knew exactly when a pitcher was going to fall apart (100 pitches, or 5 up-and-downs, or 3 lefties in a row or whatever) he'd manage around that. Which is what the Sox are doing often. But most pitchers don't have clear splits like that. Perez is bad all the time, Houck turns into Perez after the 18th batter, so let's not use past that. I know it sounds stupid to say "use pitchers when they're good and don't when they're not," but that's where we're at. For Crawford I think the probability that he's better than a replacement-level ML starter on a contender is like 10% or less, and we're at least a year away. Let's see now (as in 2021) if he succeeds in a lower value but higher probability role, and get a higher-probability depth starter. I love the idea of more 2-inning relievers with how things are going.
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radiohix
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Post by radiohix on Sept 21, 2021 15:12:57 GMT -5
Well deserved award. Really happy for the kid.
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radiohix
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Post by radiohix on Apr 11, 2022 10:08:21 GMT -5
Bumping this thread again with some good stuff from Mr RSS
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 11, 2022 12:48:27 GMT -5
I loved what I saw last night from Crawford. His stuff is even nastier than Whitlock's.
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