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Post by grandsalami on Oct 5, 2023 14:46:30 GMT -5
nypost.com/2023/10/05/red-sox-loom-as-real-threat-to-sign-shohei-ohtani/Shohei Ohtani and the Red Sox are starting to be linked more and more. One executive with an interested team said he believes they are a real threat. Ohtani has a new big deal with New Balance out of Boston. Perhaps more important: The Red Sox need to balance things out after three last-place finishes in four years. If the Red Sox do land Ohtani, maybe their faithful forget Mookie Betts. For a little while, anyway. The Cubs are a team that can afford him. But the question is: Will they spend that big? The Angels and Dodgers both will make a play, sources say. Most are writing off the incumbent team, but Ohtani did put together three extraordinary seasons over there.
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Post by ematz1423 on Oct 5, 2023 14:51:32 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong I wouldn't say no to Ohtani but I also don't really think he's the best allocation of funds to turn this team into a competitor. I have serious doubts he's able to stay healthy pitching and they have enough LHH DH types. Sure if he can't pitch he can probably go play RF or something but I don't really want to see them pay 40+M to a RF right now.
He certainly doesn't help the Red Sox 2024 rotation in any manner and takes money that they could use to spend on the rotation which badly needs it.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Oct 5, 2023 14:53:39 GMT -5
nypost.com/2023/10/05/red-sox-loom-as-real-threat-to-sign-shohei-ohtani/Shohei Ohtani and the Red Sox are starting to be linked more and more. One executive with an interested team said he believes they are a real threat. Ohtani has a new big deal with New Balance out of Boston. Perhaps more important: The Red Sox need to balance things out after three last-place finishes in four years. If the Red Sox do land Ohtani, maybe their faithful forget Mookie Betts. For a little while, anyway. The Cubs are a team that can afford him. But the question is: Will they spend that big? The Angels and Dodgers both will make a play, sources say. Most are writing off the incumbent team, but Ohtani did put together three extraordinary seasons over there. I'm definitely in on the idea of signing Ohtani, but when you stop to think about the connection with New Balance, I don't really get why that would matter much at all. It's not like he's incentivized to spend a ton of time at HQ, and his proximity shouldn't change their desire to market their premier athlete as much as humanly possible. It's obviously a point of convenience but Ohtani is about to get a deal with which he could fly private wherever and whenever he wants, essentially for life. Convenience isn't likely a point of consideration for him. Has anyone ever signed with the Blazers for proximity to Nike, or the Commanders for proximity to Under Armour? Minor rant, but I've seen it a few places and just don't buy it as a huge selling point.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Oct 5, 2023 15:18:09 GMT -5
Pivetta added a sweeper midway through the season and it was his best pitch. 116 strikeouts and 22 walks in 82 innings from July through the end of the season Yes yes yes.
Starting June 16 he faced 347 hitters and had a .262 / .261 xwOBA / wOBA. That ranked 5th and 8th respectively among 134 pitchers who faced 250+ guys in that time frame.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Oct 5, 2023 15:39:57 GMT -5
Schilling Pedro Wakefield Lowe Arroyo ….all made 29 or more starts totaling 157 of 162 starts! True ... but Arroyo was the # 6 starter!
Byung-Yuk Kim was supposed to be in the rotation. He had a ST injury and missed his first 3 starts, then Arroyo went back to the pen as Kim made 3 starts ... and then went out for the season.
Abe Alvarez started one game of a double-header on 7/23, and Pedro Astacio started game 161 to set up Schilling for the playoffs.
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chaimtime
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Post by chaimtime on Oct 5, 2023 15:54:25 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong I wouldn't say no to Ohtani but I also don't really think he's the best allocation of funds to turn this team into a competitor. I have serious doubts he's able to stay healthy pitching and they have enough LHH DH types. Sure if he can't pitch he can probably go play RF or something but I don't really want to see them pay 40+M to a RF right now. He certainly doesn't help the Red Sox 2024 rotation in any manner and takes money that they could use to spend on the rotation which badly needs it. I think it’s a little off to call Ohtani a LHH-DH Type. The Red Sox may have a lot of those but none of them were the best hitter in baseball this season. I am pretty firm in my belief that, if Soto or Ohtani is on the table this offseason, you have to do whatever you can to land one and figure out the rest later. You just don’t get many chances to add guys like that.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Oct 5, 2023 16:46:00 GMT -5
nypost.com/2023/10/05/red-sox-loom-as-real-threat-to-sign-shohei-ohtani/Shohei Ohtani and the Red Sox are starting to be linked more and more. One executive with an interested team said he believes they are a real threat. Ohtani has a new big deal with New Balance out of Boston. Perhaps more important: The Red Sox need to balance things out after three last-place finishes in four years. If the Red Sox do land Ohtani, maybe their faithful forget Mookie Betts. For a little while, anyway. The Cubs are a team that can afford him. But the question is: Will they spend that big? The Angels and Dodgers both will make a play, sources say. Most are writing off the incumbent team, but Ohtani did put together three extraordinary seasons over there. The Post trying to sell some papers?
The Sox have a very good and cost-effective DH, assuming he does all the work he needs to do in the off-season to avoid a second-half collapse.
If the Sox sign Ohtani, then Yoshida stays in LF where he was -15 runs per 150 games, and thereby loses $10M of value. And (assuming they resign Duvall, which is a no-brainer) you have to trade Verdugo and send Abreu back to the minors.
It's nonsense.
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Post by wkdbigsoxfan on Oct 5, 2023 17:46:27 GMT -5
We know how PR conscious the Sox are and what they’ve done in the past based off that. That alone is going to have the Sox in the Ohtani discussion until the end
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taiwansox
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Post by taiwansox on Oct 5, 2023 19:01:51 GMT -5
nypost.com/2023/10/05/red-sox-loom-as-real-threat-to-sign-shohei-ohtani/Shohei Ohtani and the Red Sox are starting to be linked more and more. One executive with an interested team said he believes they are a real threat. Ohtani has a new big deal with New Balance out of Boston. Perhaps more important: The Red Sox need to balance things out after three last-place finishes in four years. If the Red Sox do land Ohtani, maybe their faithful forget Mookie Betts. For a little while, anyway. The Cubs are a team that can afford him. But the question is: Will they spend that big? The Angels and Dodgers both will make a play, sources say. Most are writing off the incumbent team, but Ohtani did put together three extraordinary seasons over there. The Post trying to sell some papers?
The Sox have a very good and cost-effective DH, assuming he does all the work he needs to do in the off-season to avoid a second-half collapse.
If the Sox sign Ohtani, then Yoshida stays in LF where he was -15 runs per 150 games, and thereby loses $10M of value. And (assuming they resign Duvall, which is a no-brainer) you have to trade Verdugo and send Abreu back to the minors.
It's nonsense.
From a roster perspective it makes absolutely no sense to have another lefty DH. From a marketing standpoint, especially a TV guy like Werner, makes absolute sense. You hear Martinez saying they need a star and it’s really just brand advertising 101. The more I think about it from a marketing/SG&A to revenue standpoint, the more I think the Sox are serious
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Post by ematz1423 on Oct 5, 2023 19:04:29 GMT -5
The Post trying to sell some papers?
The Sox have a very good and cost-effective DH, assuming he does all the work he needs to do in the off-season to avoid a second-half collapse.
If the Sox sign Ohtani, then Yoshida stays in LF where he was -15 runs per 150 games, and thereby loses $10M of value. And (assuming they resign Duvall, which is a no-brainer) you have to trade Verdugo and send Abreu back to the minors.
It's nonsense.
From a roster perspective it makes absolutely no sense to have another lefty DH. From a marketing standpoint, especially a TV guy like Werner, makes absolute sense. You hear Martinez saying they need a star and it’s really just brand advertising 101. The more I think about it from a marketing/SG&A to revenue standpoint, the more I think the Sox are serious I definitely think the Sox are serious about being involved in the bidding on Ohtani. Does that mean they definitely sign him? No but I have to give them as good a shot as anyone else, whether that's for better or worse.
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Post by grandsalami on Oct 5, 2023 19:08:40 GMT -5
From a roster perspective it makes absolutely no sense to have another lefty DH. From a marketing standpoint, especially a TV guy like Werner, makes absolute sense. You hear Martinez saying they need a star and it’s really just brand advertising 101. The more I think about it from a marketing/SG&A to revenue standpoint, the more I think the Sox are serious I definitely think the Sox are serious about being involved in the bidding on Ohtani. Does that mean they definitely sign him? No but I have to give them as good a shot as anyone else, whether that's for better or worse. I recall they made a full court press to sign him when he was a free agent (before he signed with the angels) So their interest in signing him is not new www.boston.com/sports/boston-red-sox/2018/04/17/heres-how-the-red-sox-tried-to-land-shohei-ohtani/
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 5, 2023 19:22:56 GMT -5
This might be better in the Ohtani thread given this is the 24 rotation thread and Ohtani wont pitch until 25.
But I do believe the rumors if mutual interest.
I think the Sox might land him.
They're going to land somebody big among Yamamoto, Ohtani, Soto, Trout, or Snell.
Management saw all those empty seats. They know the Sox lack star power, a player that makes you want to watch.
I believe Ohtani has interest in Boston but not for the business reasons given.
So while I wouldn't be shocked if he wound up in Dodger Blue, I also think the Sox are a legit possibility.
As far as logical fit.....well the lineup was kind of lame for prolonged stretches of the season. Good Sox teams are at or near the top in runs scored so obviously Ohtani moves him toward the top.
I doubt Bloom would go after him. Like a lot of us, me included, he'd conclude that Ohtani isnt a logical fit for the roster, LH DH who cant pitch in 24.
They obviously need two top tier starters. I'm not sure how they'd afford both Ohtani and 2 top flight pitchers even with an open wallet, but it would be interesting to see them try.
I'm sure the Sox fired Bloom with the thought of hiring somebody who'll land a big fish ot two.
I have a feeling this offseason is going to be easily a lot more interesting than the past 2 seasons combined.
I think the Sox will go into with the intent of showing the Sox are back in business, which was what Duquette said when they signed Manny.
The Sox had become irrelevant with a lot of fan apathy and I think they know the Sox fill the stands when they have star power AND they win.
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Post by Don Caballero on Oct 5, 2023 19:26:43 GMT -5
The Post trying to sell some papers? The Sox have a very good and cost-effective DH, assuming he does all the work he needs to do in the off-season to avoid a second-half collapse. If the Sox sign Ohtani, then Yoshida stays in LF where he was -15 runs per 150 games, and thereby loses $10M of value. And (assuming they resign Duvall, which is a no-brainer) you have to trade Verdugo and send Abreu back to the minors. It's nonsense.
What makes you think Yoshida can improve at the plate but not on the field?
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Oct 5, 2023 19:36:25 GMT -5
We know how PR conscious the Sox are and what they’ve done in the past based off that. That alone is going to have the Sox in the Ohtani discussion until the end And exactly why should we give an excremental act if they fake interest in order to have clueless writers like Pete Abraham keep them in the news, while placating the less intelligent fans?
It's usually SOP to fake interest when you have none, in order to drive the price up. But if were an opposing GM and someone from the Sox said they were very much in on Ohotani, I'd laugh in their face and ask "And what are you going to do with Yoshida? Concessions?"
It's worth mentioning again that Yoshida DH'd 2/3 of the time (exactly!) in each of his last of his two seasons in Japan. He was a DH when they signed him. They brought in Turner because that was a smart thing to do, but Yoshida in left turned out to be worse than expected, to the point where he needs to be DH next year.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Oct 5, 2023 19:53:33 GMT -5
The Post trying to sell some papers? The Sox have a very good and cost-effective DH, assuming he does all the work he needs to do in the off-season to avoid a second-half collapse. If the Sox sign Ohtani, then Yoshida stays in LF where he was -15 runs per 150 games, and thereby loses $10M of value. And (assuming they resign Duvall, which is a no-brainer) you have to trade Verdugo and send Abreu back to the minors. It's nonsense.
What makes you think Yoshida can improve at the plate but not on the field? He’s had a full career of being a good hitter and being a bad fielder, that seems like a pretty good place to start.
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Post by manfred on Oct 5, 2023 19:54:16 GMT -5
We know how PR conscious the Sox are and what they’ve done in the past based off that. That alone is going to have the Sox in the Ohtani discussion until the end And exactly why should we give an excremental act if they fake interest in order to have clueless writers like Pete Abraham keep them in the news, while placating the less intelligent fans?
It's usually SOP to fake interest when you have none, in order to drive the price up. But if were an opposing GM and someone from the Sox said they were very much in on Ohotani, I'd laugh in their face and ask "And what are you going to do with Yoshida? Concessions?"
It's worth mentioning again that Yoshida DH'd 2/3 of the time (exactly!) in each of his last of his two seasons in Japan. He was a DH when they signed him. They brought in Turner because that was a smart thing to do, but Yoshida in left turned out to be worse than expected, to the point where he needs to be DH next year.
I agree with this. But… might they end up trading Masa? He won’t be the new guy’s mistake to live with.
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Post by Don Caballero on Oct 5, 2023 21:19:04 GMT -5
He’s had a full career of being a good hitter and being a bad fielder, that seems like a pretty good place to start. I'll rephrase my question: can't he simply be bad instead of UNPLAYABLE bad out there? They didn't plan for him to be a DH, considering they signed Turner.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Oct 5, 2023 21:21:23 GMT -5
And exactly why should we give an excremental act if they fake interest in order to have clueless writers like Pete Abraham keep them in the news, while placating the less intelligent fans?
It's usually SOP to fake interest when you have none, in order to drive the price up. But if were an opposing GM and someone from the Sox said they were very much in on Ohotani, I'd laugh in their face and ask "And what are you going to do with Yoshida? Concessions?"
It's worth mentioning again that Yoshida DH'd 2/3 of the time (exactly!) in each of his last of his two seasons in Japan. He was a DH when they signed him. They brought in Turner because that was a smart thing to do, but Yoshida in left turned out to be worse than expected, to the point where he needs to be DH next year.
I agree with this. But… might they end up trading Masa? He won’t be the new guy’s mistake to live with. A bad final 2 months and the guys a mistake? FFS, why would anyone want to come play for this fanbase
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Post by scottysmalls on Oct 5, 2023 22:27:44 GMT -5
Meh if you can bring in Ohtani you deal with the sub optimal value of of Yoshida in left. If he can’t get better defensively you either move him or sacrifice there for the offense.
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Post by manfred on Oct 5, 2023 22:51:54 GMT -5
I agree with this. But… might they end up trading Masa? He won’t be the new guy’s mistake to live with. A bad final 2 months and the guys a mistake? FFS, why would anyone want to come play for this fanbase If he is strictly a DH whose offense is good but not great? That is not optimal. If the idea is they might pursue Ohtani but it is *blocked* by Masa? Yeah, that’s not great.
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Post by Guidas on Oct 6, 2023 8:47:32 GMT -5
Yamamoto info: The Yankees, Cubs, Dodgers, Red Sox, Cardinals, Phillies, Giants, Diamondbacks, Tigers and Rangers and others heavily scouted Yamamoto. The Mets scored big with Yamamoto friend Kodai Senga, and the $75 million Senga deal looks like a bargain (he was hurt in talks by an iffy MRI as was reported here after he signed).
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Oct 6, 2023 10:23:20 GMT -5
Schilling Pedro Wakefield Lowe Arroyo ….all made 29 or more starts totaling 157 of 162 starts! True ... but Arroyo was the # 6 starter!
Byung-Yuk Kim was supposed to be in the rotation. He had a ST injury and missed his first 3 starts, then Arroyo went back to the pen as Kim made 3 starts ... and then went out for the season.
Abe Alvarez started one game of a double-header on 7/23, and Pedro Astacio started game 161 to set up Schilling for the playoffs.
I am not talking about who was supposed to be in the rotation! I am talking about who actually made the starts! Five pitchers made a 157 starts and that is a FACT you can not argue with!
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Post by Guidas on Oct 6, 2023 13:22:02 GMT -5
He’s had a full career of being a good hitter and being a bad fielder, that seems like a pretty good place to start. I'll rephrase my question: can't he simply be bad instead of UNPLAYABLE bad out there? They didn't plan for him to be a DH, considering they signed Turner. Playing him in LF for home games only should be doable. Short field which means he plays shallow for the wall and Rafaela in CF could make up for a lot of mistakes. Counterpoint is Rafaela in CF and Duran in LF means a fly ball may never hit the ground on 2/3s of the field.
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Post by GyIantosca on Oct 6, 2023 15:23:39 GMT -5
I just read that The Brewers Pitcher wants out. I have no idea. Corbin Burnes
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Oct 6, 2023 15:55:37 GMT -5
True ... but Arroyo was the # 6 starter!
Byung-Yuk Kim was supposed to be in the rotation. He had a ST injury and missed his first 3 starts, then Arroyo went back to the pen as Kim made 3 starts ... and then went out for the season.
Abe Alvarez started one game of a double-header on 7/23, and Pedro Astacio started game 161 to set up Schilling for the playoffs.
I am not talking about who was supposed to be in the rotation! I am talking about who actually made the starts! Five pitchers made a 157 starts and that is a FACT you can not argue with! The 2021 Sox got 150 starts from their top 6 starters (plus 9 at the end from Sale). Not quite the same but the bottom line is that if you have the same 5-6 guys all taking their regular turns and eating innings, you can go a long way, even if they aren't all that great (Garrett Richards and Martin Perez accounted for 44 starts and 250.2 IP that season).
Give me guys that can take the ball and eat innings.
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