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Post by chaimtime on Oct 2, 2023 17:24:35 GMT -5
Now that it has been irrefutably proven that Trevor Bauer was viciously targeted and extorted by his accuser, I hope we will be bidding on his services. Trevor Bauer has many accusers, for what it’s worth. Regardless, he’s going to be 33 soon, it has been years since he’s pitched in the majors, and he’s an enormous asshole. He should remain as far away from Fenway Park as possible.
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Post by grandsalami on Oct 2, 2023 17:25:26 GMT -5
Now that it has been irrefutably proven that Trevor Bauer was viciously targeted and extorted by his accuser, I hope we will be bidding on his services. Trevor Bauer has many accusers, for what it’s worth. Regardless, he’s going to be 33 soon, it has been years since he’s pitched in the majors, and he’s an enormous asshole. He should remain as far away from Fenway Park as possible. Yup. I want nothing to do with that ass.
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Post by bannedfromsosh on Oct 2, 2023 17:32:40 GMT -5
I’ll just assume you haven’t seen the newly released texts and footage. She’s an absolute monster for what she did. Bauer needs to be apologized to, and back in an MLB uniform next year. Surely that's the only woman with allegations with him, right? Oh, he must be guilty of those too. After all, accusations should be all it takes to completely railroad someone’s livelihood. If you watch the evidence he presents, she is 100% dead to rights guilty. The other cases didn’t even get the traction this bogus one did…highly likely they were even flimsier. And he’s been ostracized for a year and a half now. Compare that to Ozuna and Chapman. Unreal how devoted people can be to this narrative about Bauer, even in the face of damning evidence she extorted him, while turning the other cheek against far more dastardly actors.
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Post by grandsalami on Oct 2, 2023 17:38:04 GMT -5
Surely that's the only woman with allegations with him, right? Oh, he must be guilty of those too. After all, accusations should be all it takes to completely railroad someone’s livelihood. If you watch the evidence he presents, she is 100% dead to rights guilty. The other cases didn’t even get the traction this bogus one did…highly likely they were even flimsier. And he’s been ostracized for a year and a half now. Compare that to Ozuna and Chapman. Unreal how devoted people can be to this narrative about Bauer, even in the face of damning evidence she extorted him, while turning the other cheek against far more dastardly actors. No... Just no.... I would stop rooting for the Sox altogether if they signed that POS And thats all I am going to say on this topic
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Oct 2, 2023 17:41:34 GMT -5
Surely that's the only woman with allegations with him, right? Oh, he must be guilty of those too. After all, accusations should be all it takes to completely railroad someone’s livelihood. If you watch the evidence he presents, she is 100% dead to rights guilty. The other cases didn’t even get the traction this bogus one did…highly likely they were even flimsier. And he’s been ostracized for a year and a half now. Compare that to Ozuna and Chapman. Unreal how devoted people can be to this narrative about Bauer, even in the face of damning evidence she extorted him, while turning the other cheek against far more dastardly actors. If he treats women half as good as he treated Tito Francona, that's all I need to know. Ozuna and Chapman can get F'd, too. Shocked you were banned from Sons of Sam Horn, btw
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Post by vermontsox1 on Oct 2, 2023 17:44:15 GMT -5
Alright, let's stop with the discussion of the off the field stuff. Not the right forum for that.
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Post by bannedfromsosh on Oct 2, 2023 17:46:37 GMT -5
Oh, he must be guilty of those too. After all, accusations should be all it takes to completely railroad someone’s livelihood. If you watch the evidence he presents, she is 100% dead to rights guilty. The other cases didn’t even get the traction this bogus one did…highly likely they were even flimsier. And he’s been ostracized for a year and a half now. Compare that to Ozuna and Chapman. Unreal how devoted people can be to this narrative about Bauer, even in the face of damning evidence she extorted him, while turning the other cheek against far more dastardly actors. If he treats women half as good as he treated Tito Francona, that's all I need to know. Ozuna and Chapman can get F'd, too. Shocked you were banned from Sons of Sam Born, btw I take it as a badge of honor. Ban me here too for all I care. A man was unjustly framed as a sexual abuser…evidence now confirms it was a hit job…and he deserves redemption. If you don’t want to give him that due, at least admit one of two things: You don’t like his personality and/or you “believe all women” even when the woman proves to be a demonstrable extortion artist. Bauer was banned from MLB for a crime he did not commit. That is a miscarriage of justice. End of story
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Post by vermontsox1 on Oct 2, 2023 17:53:26 GMT -5
If he treats women half as good as he treated Tito Francona, that's all I need to know. Ozuna and Chapman can get F'd, too. Shocked you were banned from Sons of Sam Born, btw I take it as a badge of honor. Ban me here too for all I care. A man was unjustly framed as a sexual abuser…evidence now confirms it was a hit job…and he deserves redemption. If you don’t want to give him that due, at least admit one of two things: You don’t like his personality and/or you “believe all women” even when the woman proves to be a demonstrable extortion artist. Bauer was banned from MLB for a crime he did not commit. That is a miscarriage of justice. End of story Done.
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Post by kwodes on Oct 2, 2023 18:11:09 GMT -5
Lol Idk wtf that was, so we're all down to just pretend that never happened? Good, me too. So, about the sox rotation next year... Yamamoto has to be the #1 target, but I've been a big proponent of sonny gray on this site. I can see him getting a 2 yr + option or a 3 yr deal (haven't really looked at contract comps for him, just looking at his age). Yamamoto + Gray would be roughly 40-50 mill AAV.
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Post by scottysmalls on Oct 2, 2023 18:19:20 GMT -5
Lol Idk wtf that was, so we're all down to just pretend that never happened? Good, me too. So, about the sox rotation next year... Yamamoto has to be the #1 target, but I've been a big proponent of sonny gray on this site. I can see him getting a 2 yr + option or a 3 yr deal (haven't really looked at contract comps for him, just looking at his age). Yamamoto + Gray would be roughly 40-50 mill AAV. Bassitt's 3/63 is probably the most direct comp, though Gray is coming off a better season than Bassitt was. I'd say 3/60 is probably the baseline for Gray.
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Post by kwodes on Oct 2, 2023 18:27:34 GMT -5
Lol Idk wtf that was, so we're all down to just pretend that never happened? Good, me too. So, about the sox rotation next year... Yamamoto has to be the #1 target, but I've been a big proponent of sonny gray on this site. I can see him getting a 2 yr + option or a 3 yr deal (haven't really looked at contract comps for him, just looking at his age). Yamamoto + Gray would be roughly 40-50 mill AAV. Bassitt's 3/63 is probably the most direct comp, though Gray is coming off a better season than Bassitt was. I'd say 3/60 is probably the baseline for Gray. Yammamoto for 7/175 and Gray 3/60 would be fine with me. Yammamoto, Gray, Sale, Bello, Pivetta, Crawford is fine with me. Plus Houck, whitlock, Bernardino, Martin, Jansen, Schreiber, Winckowski.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Oct 2, 2023 18:36:42 GMT -5
Bassitt's 3/63 is probably the most direct comp, though Gray is coming off a better season than Bassitt was. I'd say 3/60 is probably the baseline for Gray. Yammamoto for 7/175 and Gray 3/60 would be fine with me. Yammamoto, Gray, Sale, Bello, Pivetta, Crawford is fine with me. Plus Houck, whitlock, Bernardino, Martin, Jansen, Schreiber, Winckowski. Yamamoto is going to clear 200 easily
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Post by bloomstaxonomy on Oct 2, 2023 18:51:34 GMT -5
Sale’s contract expires after next year, and I’m gonna say they don’t pick up the additional option at this juncture but you never know. He provided some value this season.
I think it makes sense to sign two pitchers, two different types of pitchers. Someone who is a veteran and someone young to grow with the rest of the team on a longer contract.
In that case, I think you can look at:
A.) young, controllable pitcher - Yamamoto (Urias would have been here too if he wasn’t as horrible a human being as has been reported)
B.) good vet - Nola, Montgomery, Snell*, Kluber**
C.) good vet, older, shorter contract - Gray
So by my vision, I’ve gotta go with Yamamoto on default (though I think he’ll be great) and then one from category B***. I prefer Nola or Montgomery myself. Category C is for when you misread or miss on any one of the guys from A and B and pivot to plug a hole with lower financial risk.
*I think he’s gonna get a lot more $$$ than those other guys there in B but I’m not sure he is all that much better. Or that he clearly will be in the next 6 years **kidding ***leaving Ohtani off of A, B, and C, because I think he probably fits with B but there is so much more to the conversation at that point, it’s easier to leave him off and he can’t pitch in 2024 anyways (so I think they’ll still need 2 pitchers next year)
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,380
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Post by radiohix on Oct 2, 2023 20:15:01 GMT -5
Yamamoto last night: 7 IP 2 BB 11 K 3 H 0 ER 112 pitches - 78 strikes Season ERA down to 1.21 Season Barring Average against .198
Guys, I think he’s kinda good at baseball.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 2, 2023 20:24:41 GMT -5
Yammamoto for 7/175 and Gray 3/60 would be fine with me. Yammamoto, Gray, Sale, Bello, Pivetta, Crawford is fine with me. Plus Houck, whitlock, Bernardino, Martin, Jansen, Schreiber, Winckowski. Yamamoto is going to clear 200 easily Definitely
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Oct 2, 2023 20:50:10 GMT -5
I think that’s the 1st main issue with most trades you might even hypothetically consider for Bello (which let’s be clear, is very unlikely haha) - there’s still so much talent and team control there that whoever they got back would need to be huge ransom to he worth it. The 2nd issue is I’m not sure who is giving you a huge ransom for him… because the folks who hold him in the highest esteem are the Red Sox fans who compare him to Pedro every other day. Like if Tyler Milliken becomes GM of the Padres tomorrow, I’m sure you can get Juan Soto and Joe Musgrove for Bello after a 20 minute conversation. I’m not sure how many GM’s are scrolling Red Sox twitter watching Bello hype videos… Bello is definitely overrated by the fan base, he isn’t particularly close to being the next Pedro as it stands. But I would be pretty disappointed if the return for him was a year of Corbin Burnes or a year of Juan Soto plus the right to pay Joe Musgrove through his thirties. A controllable number-3 with upside is worth a lot more than that. You're going to have a hard time convincing the last Pedro of that...
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Oct 2, 2023 20:56:17 GMT -5
I would like to say that Brayan Bello did not have a fantastic season, does not rate great on the pitch modeling statistics, and if I ran the team I would be looking to cash in on the trade market if there's a team in love with him. I guess we've figured out which user name Dave Dombrowski has been trolling us with...
In all seriousness, if we learned nothing else from this season, from Kutter Crawford, it's that it takes well more more than one season for a SP to find his MLB footing. There would've been some mighty grumpy posters on this board if Chaim had traded him last winter and he broke out elsewhere. [Depending on the return, of course, but he would've fetched far less than Bello could.]
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Post by chaimtime on Oct 2, 2023 22:06:57 GMT -5
Bello is definitely overrated by the fan base, he isn’t particularly close to being the next Pedro as it stands. But I would be pretty disappointed if the return for him was a year of Corbin Burnes or a year of Juan Soto plus the right to pay Joe Musgrove through his thirties. A controllable number-3 with upside is worth a lot more than that. You're going to have a hard time convincing the last Pedro of that... I don’t see what Rubby De La Rosa has to do with anything. In all seriousness, I don’t think anyone is saying dump Bello for the best offer you can get right now. But if someone buys him as a future ace and wants to make a deal accordingly, I’d at least want to listen to what they had to offer.
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Post by Smittyw on Oct 3, 2023 6:36:00 GMT -5
"The Next Pedro" is obviously an impossible and ridiculous bar to set (come on, nobody's actually expecting that, so why bring it up?), but having waited so long for even a viable mid-rotation starter to emerge from our system, it's hard to countenance trading him away with so many years of control. We'd be thirsting to acquire a guy like him if he was on another team.
Obviously no one is untradeable, but give me a rotation with Bello plus free agent acquisition(s) over a scenario where we trade Bello for a pitcher who might be a moderate upgrade.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Oct 3, 2023 12:38:04 GMT -5
"The Next Pedro" is obviously an impossible and ridiculous bar to set (come on, nobody's actually expecting that, so why bring it up?), but having waited so long for even a viable mid-rotation starter to emerge from our system, it's hard to countenance trading him away with so many years of control. We'd be thirsting to acquire a guy like him if he was on another team. Obviously no one is untradeable, but give me a rotation with Bello plus free agent acquisition(s) over a scenario where we trade Bello for a pitcher who might be a moderate upgrade. Hard to imagine a scenario in which Bello gets traded as one of the new GM's first official acts. At least Betts only had one year left and was clearly going to be difficult to shoehorn into the long-term budget. Would Bello bring a haul? Of course, because a young, controllable big league pitcher with filthy stuff (at night) is what everyone wants.
Trading Bello is like punting on first down. It's a move made by a 100-loss team with a junk farm system at the very beginning of a long rebuild with a far-off window of contention. Even then, can you ever really feel like your window is at least 5 years off? Even if so, would you, as that team's GM, expect to be around to see it open? You certainly wouldn't see it if you traded a Bello and watched him flourish elsewhere.
The Red Sox, as lousy as consecutive 78-win seasons feel for fans, should contend next year, at least for a WC spot, if not for the division if everything falls right. Off-loading a fine bird like Bello, who is already in hand, is downright reckless even if the return is two even finer birds from the bush.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Oct 3, 2023 12:42:18 GMT -5
"The Next Pedro" is obviously an impossible and ridiculous bar to set (come on, nobody's actually expecting that, so why bring it up?), but having waited so long for even a viable mid-rotation starter to emerge from our system, it's hard to countenance trading him away with so many years of control. We'd be thirsting to acquire a guy like him if he was on another team. Obviously no one is untradeable, but give me a rotation with Bello plus free agent acquisition(s) over a scenario where we trade Bello for a pitcher who might be a moderate upgrade. Hard to imagine a scenario in which Bello gets traded as one of the new GM's first official acts. At least Betts only had one year left and was clearly going to be difficult to shoehorn into the long-term budget. Would Bello bring a haul? Of course, because a young, controllable big league pitcher with filthy stuff (at night) is what everyone wants.
Trading Bello is like punting on first down. It's a move made by a 100-loss team with a junk farm system at the very beginning of a long rebuild with a far-off window of contention. Even then, can you ever really feel like your window is at least 5 years off? Even if so, would you, as that team's GM, expect to be around to see it open? You certainly wouldn't see it if you traded a Bello and watched him flourish elsewhere. You'd prolly never work as a GM again.
The Red Sox, as lousy as consecutive 78-win seasons feel for fans, should contend next year, at least for a WC spot, if not for the division if everything falls right. Off-loading a fine bird like Bello, who is already in hand, is downright reckless even if the return is two even finer birds from the bush.
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 3, 2023 12:50:26 GMT -5
The Sox should sign 2 pitchers out of Japan. Yamamoto and Bauer now that it’s clear he was railroaded. He’s the best arm on the market and will be highly discounted. Get them both done.
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Post by bloomstaxonomy on Oct 3, 2023 13:06:14 GMT -5
There is no one I want the Red Sox to associate with less than Bauer. I get the feeling that people who now want to sign him here and elsewhere on the internet are not doing so for baseball reasons, regardless of which team they root for.
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Post by incandenza on Oct 3, 2023 13:07:04 GMT -5
The Sox should sign 2 pitchers out of Japan. Yamamoto and Bauer now that it’s clear he was railroaded. He’s the best arm on the market and will be highly discounted. Get them both done. I am cutting a very wide berth around any discussion of Bauer as a human being, but what would make you say he's the best arm on the market? He's really only had one exceptionally good full season and that was 5 years ago. Since 2019 he has a 3.98 FIP; for comparison Kutter Crawford's was 3.80 this season. A number of free agent pitchers have been better than that and none of them have been out of MLB for over two years.
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 3, 2023 13:14:45 GMT -5
The Sox should sign 2 pitchers out of Japan. Yamamoto and Bauer now that it’s clear he was railroaded. He’s the best arm on the market and will be highly discounted. Get them both done. I am cutting a very wide berth around any discussion of Bauer as a human being, but what would make you say he's the best arm on the market? He's really only had one exceptionally good full season and that was 5 years ago. Since 2019 he has a 3.98 FIP; for comparison Kutter Crawford's was 3.80 this season. A number of free agent pitchers have been better than that and none of them have been out of MLB for over two years. I know very little about him as a human; i just know the accusation that pushed him from the league turned out to be a railroading. I don’t really care what he does in his sex life if it’s not illegal. Also, I look at his numbers and stuff and don’t put all my eggs in the FIP basket. Perhaps if you’re consistently out performing your FIP it’s not worth looking at. I feel he’s a top of the rotation type starter who’s not going to be paid like one. If I’m wrong about how much he’d get then no I don’t want him. I want the talent at the discount.
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