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Post by azblue on Jun 12, 2016 19:41:29 GMT -5
Since multiple sources state that he goes by Jay Groome, perhaps we should start practicing...maybe re-title this thread.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jun 12, 2016 20:57:25 GMT -5
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jun 12, 2016 22:06:41 GMT -5
Since multiple sources state that he goes by Jay Groome, perhaps we should start practicing...maybe re-title this thread. Worked for Ed Rice. (Actually, "Jason Groome" sounds better, due to the extra syllable ... "Jay" can be the nickname.)
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Post by myleskennefick on Jun 12, 2016 22:47:47 GMT -5
Keith Law doesn't sound too concerned about the maturity issues:
The Red Sox nabbed the best high school player in the draft in Jason Groome (1) with the 12th overall pick. He fell because of some minor off-field concerns, but on the field, Groome's stuff and character are top-notch: He has a present 70 curveball, sits 90-94 touching 97, with an easy delivery and strong competitive streak. His fastball command is below average, and he will need to develop a better changeup since he barely used it in high school.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Jun 13, 2016 8:35:47 GMT -5
Does the Kyle Lewis pick (Mariners) having already signed for slot money affect Groome's decision? Lewis was the 11th pick & signed for slot money. I've read he was supposed to go early as well. He could of also stayed @ Mercer Univ & signed next year. I do believe he was only a Jr.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Jun 13, 2016 9:33:27 GMT -5
Other thoughts on Groome. I would be floored if he doesn't sign for these reasons. He is on a northeast team close to home. Next year he could be drafted by a west coast team (there are a few crappy teams out there). Next years draft is supposed to be strong & he could end up being drafted in a similar position. He can begin his earnings a year earlier. Injury risk. Likes the Sox organization. His/family's reaction when draft was announced. Many of these items are obvious, but the aggregate makes this seem inevitable.
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Post by jmei on Jun 13, 2016 9:45:49 GMT -5
I agree that if Boston is able to offer a $4m bonus, it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense for him to decline that offer. But (a) be prepared for a lot of posturing (especially from his agent) right up until the point he signs (if he does sign) and (b) draftees (and MLB players, for that matter) have been known to make sub-optimal decisions out of anger/resentment (if they feel they've been insulted/mistreated) or irrational confidence before, and there is real risk here.
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Post by cologneredsox on Jun 13, 2016 10:41:25 GMT -5
I agree that if Boston is able to offer a $4m bonus, it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense for him to decline that offer. But (a) be prepared for a lot of posturing (especially from his agent) right up until the point he signs (if he does sign) and (b) draftees (and MLB players, for that matter) have been known to make sub-optimal decisions out of anger/resentment (if they feel they've been insulted/mistreated) or irrational confidence before, and there is real risk here. But isn't there the hope that it's not really the red sox, who mistreated him, but the teams which didn't pick him before? He has to see the red sox need at least some of their money to sign other picks.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Jun 13, 2016 10:42:22 GMT -5
This is a new/unknown agent, so, if he has any ambitions at all, he'd be stupid not to make some noise around this, do some posturing to get himself some clips fighting for his client that he can show other people. So, if/when that happens it may or may not mean anything more than that.
Frankly, a kid maximizing his earnings is a sign of maturity for me, not immaturity. But being petulant and immature about it is always a danger with 17/18 year old kids.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Jun 13, 2016 10:45:49 GMT -5
I agree that if Boston is able to offer a $4m bonus, it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense for him to decline that offer. But (a) be prepared for a lot of posturing (especially from his agent) right up until the point he signs (if he does sign) and (b) draftees (and MLB players, for that matter) have been known to make sub-optimal decisions out of anger/resentment (if they feel they've been insulted/mistreated) or irrational confidence before, and there is real risk here. You just reminded me of how an emissary from Dan Duquette had Mark Teixeira roll up his pant leg so the guy could point out that his calves were a little skinny, so maybe he should just take what the Sox were offering.
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Post by MLBDreams on Jun 13, 2016 10:58:14 GMT -5
Hope Jay signs it sooner for pitching this summer from GCL to NY-Penn levels. It's only way to reach MLB by age 20 if he performs well in all minor levels. The average is between 3-5 years in depend on player's skills. If not, Jay will lose it by waiting for next year as start out due to late signing.
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Post by James Dunne on Jun 13, 2016 11:24:35 GMT -5
Hope Jay signs it sooner for pitching this summer from GCL to NY-Penn levels. It's only way to reach MLB by age 20 if he performs well in all minor levels. The average is between 3-5 years in depend on player's skills. If not, Jay will lose it by waiting for next year as start out due to late signing. Just as a heads up, the signing period is now only about a month long - the deadline is 7/15 this year. Even if he signed today I wouldn't expect him to get many innings before then anyway. So it's a whole different ballgame then when someone like Trot Nixon could go right up to the day he had to show up at NC State in 1993. This was done exactly for the reason you are bringing up. It accelerates the timetable for both player and team, and basically leads to six weeks fewer of posturing while also getting the player on the field in the season he was drafted. I agree that if Boston is able to offer a $4m bonus, it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense for him to decline that offer. But (a) be prepared for a lot of posturing (especially from his agent) right up until the point he signs (if he does sign) and (b) draftees (and MLB players, for that matter) have been known to make sub-optimal decisions out of anger/resentment (if they feel they've been insulted/mistreated) or irrational confidence before, and there is real risk here. You just reminded me of how an emissary from Dan Duquette had Mark Teixeira roll up his pant leg so the guy could point out that his calves were a little skinny, so maybe he should just take what the Sox were offering. Is this real? Oh my god. People who claim Duquette was a better GM than Epstein make me phsyically ill.
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Post by ibsmith85 on Jun 13, 2016 12:36:01 GMT -5
Christopher Crawford (BP), Jim Callis (MLB), and Eric Longenhagen (FanGraphs) weigh in on where Groome slots in on the farm rankings. SB Nation Over the Monster LinkSummarized at the end with their Top 10 looking like this: So, if you’re keeping track at home, the Red Sox top-10 probably looks something like this if you assume Groome is going to sign: Yoan Moncada Andrew Benintendi Anderson Espinoza Rafael Devers Jason Groome Sam Travis Michael Kopech Brian Johnson Michael Chavis Luis Alexander Basabe
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Post by borisman on Jun 13, 2016 13:00:56 GMT -5
I just saw some of the highlights from his 19 K game. That last kid started his swing as the ball was already past him. No chance! Can't wait till J-Groove is in da house. Any chance they start him in the DSL since he is so young?
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jun 13, 2016 13:08:34 GMT -5
Don't know that a lot of Sox fans look at the Duke era better than the Epstein, tho can't see a ton of current GM's as better than Dan is and really have a problem with how long Dan was un employed. Think NE media played a lot into that.
Look no further than the ChiSox and kenny Williams with one long time failed GM. He's not the only one either. Seattle to way to long to fire jack Z. Duquette didn't do a bad job in Boston, given his limits by then ownership.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Jun 13, 2016 16:26:19 GMT -5
You just reminded me of how an emissary from Dan Duquette had Mark Teixeira roll up his pant leg so the guy could point out that his calves were a little skinny, so maybe he should just take what the Sox were offering. Is this real? Oh my god. People who claim Duquette was a better GM than Epstein make me phsyically ill. The story is true, though I had one detail wrong: Wayne Britton said he had thick legs not skinny ones: articles.courant.com/2002-03-03/sports/0203032121_1_development-system-dan-duquette-red-sox-gm/3"The Red Sox also failed to sign three of their top nine picks in '98, including third baseman Mark Teixeira. According to an individual familiar with the negotiation process, Teixeira was so distraught with the way the organization treated him he decided to go to college, even though the team had eventually met his asking price. Teixeira will never forget the day Red Sox vice president of scouting Wayne Britton showed up at one of his high school games. They were talking afterward when Britton asked Teixeira to roll up his uniform pants, then proceeded to squeeze his legs. ``Britton grabbed the back of his leg,'' the source said. ``Teixeira had thick legs, so there was some concern he might have a dead lower half that would cause him to slow down and be more like a first baseman/DH. I think they alienate some of these kids.'' But Britton will not have the opportunity to alienate any more kids. He was fired Saturday and replaced by former Marlins scouting director David Chadd."
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Post by tonyc on Jun 13, 2016 18:01:04 GMT -5
John Silver is exactly right. Redsox ownership during Duquette's time had a clear budget (and the Yankees did not) which was much tighter than Epstein's other than the end when he signed Manny. I won't argue he was better than Epstein, but he was quite good. Yes he had real personality holes that led to some of the above botches, and a poorer opinion about him in the press and players than his actual performance.. Epstein's personality and organization was first class (though I still laugh at his slip of depicting Jonathan Paplebon as "not exactly a Rhode's scholar.") But with his limited budget he plucked a number of players from the scrap heap for nothing that hit big- particularly the winter of 94-5, players like Tim Wakefield, Troy Oleary, that 16 game winning pitcher (forgot name). Made the Pedro and Varitek trades, locked up Pedro and Normar and passed on the disastrous Mo Vaughn contract. Lastly, he didn't make many major blunders of selling low on top prospects for winning now- I thought Frankie Rodriguez, who had a high 90's fastball would be one, but he fizzled. And boy if not for that tragic Andy Yount injury his success and legacy would have been different. This was a wonderful reprieve from Lou Gorman, who despite personal skills had that as an Achilles heel. The day he replaced Gorman I jumped for joy and had faith they'd finally go all the way one day!
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jun 13, 2016 18:53:29 GMT -5
Re-taking the topic of Groome again. I believe he graduates at the end of the month so I wouldn't expect to hear about him signing before then. In fact I think it will go down to the final day but I think he'll sign, agents can posture all they want but at the end of the day the will of the kid take over and from everything I've read about Groome leads me to believe his will is to turn pro.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Jun 13, 2016 19:54:37 GMT -5
Don't know that a lot of Sox fans look at the Duke era better than the Epstein, tho can't see a ton of current GM's as better than Dan is and really have a problem with how long Dan was un employed. Think NE media played a lot into that. Look no further than the ChiSox and kenny Williams with one long time failed GM. He's not the only one either. Seattle to way to long to fire jack Z. Duquette didn't do a bad job in Boston, given his limits by then ownership. Duquette hit a lot of home runs, and made a lot of errors. His intelligence and use of early analytics was miles ahead of what came before him. He traded for Pedro (twice!) and signed Manny, and drafted Nomar. In my field, it's like reading literary criticism from the 60s: a lot of things look dopey now, but were so much better than ten years before.
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Post by larrycook on Jun 13, 2016 21:11:09 GMT -5
If we sign groome, won't he still have to complete he shoulder training program before he even sniffs the field?
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Post by azblue on Jun 13, 2016 22:53:11 GMT -5
Very likely that Jay Groome will have to complete the shoulder training program. It appears that this is one of the reasons why he was so excited about being drafted by the Red Sox. He not only loves being drafted by his favorite team, he was thrilled to be taken by a team that would "protect him."
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Post by burythehammer on Jun 14, 2016 5:07:20 GMT -5
Based on what.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 14, 2016 6:45:03 GMT -5
Re-taking the topic of Groome again. I believe he graduates at the end of the month so I wouldn't expect to hear about him signing before then. In fact I think it will go down to the final day but I think he'll sign, agents can posture all they want but at the end of the day the will of the kid take over and from everything I've read about Groome leads me to believe his will is to turn pro. I have the same thoughts, and I also believe that this will delay making a lot of other signings official until the last minute as well. I hope it all works out perfectly.
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Post by tonyc on Jun 14, 2016 9:34:08 GMT -5
I agree as well, he'll sign last moment. Groome being projected as approximately top 4 in our system reflects so well on where we're at, and also displays how much weight is given to how far he must go to get to the big leagues,despite ceiling comparisons to Kershaw. Forgive me, but a last aside on Duquette- the biggest correct call he made- and came within a hair of executing would have changed Boston and the Yanks standings. He allocated the money Vaugn wanted to a longterm contract for Bernie Williams and that was set to go forward, as Joe Torre told his ownership he could deal with the explosive Albert Belle, set to sign with N.Y. Then a third team, Baltimore I think, put in a last moment big bid for Belle, who ended up being a mess of a contract, prompting N.Y.to suddenly sign Bernie instead and left Boston without a musical chair.
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Post by azblue on Jun 14, 2016 11:01:09 GMT -5
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